Hungarian 3. Army
Hungarian 3. Army
I am trying to find some orders of battle for the Hungarian 3. Army during WW2. I have the basic arrangment down to regimental level for the invasion of Yugoslavia but I am missing the names of the people who commanded those regiments also does anyone know the approximate size of a Hungarian regiment? Any help would be much appreciated.
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Abel Ravasz
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 22:46
- Location: Hungary/Slovakia
Hungarian 3 rd Army
Administrative order of battle 6-41 to 4 - 42
VII Corps Miskolc
19th Inf Bde Miskolc
20th Inf Bde Eger
21st Inf Bde Losonc
VIII Corps
22nd Inf Bde Nyiregyhaza
23rd Inf Bde Kassa
24th Inf Bde Ungvar
1 st Mtn Bde Beszterce
8th Border Guard Regt Munkacs
IX Corps
25th Inf Bde Nagyvarad
26th Inf Bde Kolozsvar
27th Inf Bde Marosvasarhely
9th Border Guard Bde Cslszereda
16/9/44
IV Corps: 20th ID, 1st Armd D
VII Corps: 12thRes D, Lakatos Bde
VIII Corps: 5th Field Repl. Div, 8th Field Repl. Div
Reserve: 4th Field Repl. Div, 6th Field Repl. Div
13/10/44
VIII Corps: 23rd Res D 5th Field Repl. Div, 8th Field Repl. Div
LVII Panzerkorps: 20th ID , 1st Cav D, 4 SS PzG D
Rreserve Szt Laszlo D
5/11/44
VIII Corps: 20th ID 5th Field Repl. Div, 8th Field Repl. Div
LXXII Armeekorps: 25th ID, 76th ID
Rreserve Szt Laszlo D
26/11/44
II Corps: 23rd Res d, 1st River Bde
LXXII Armeekorps: 25th ID, 76th ID
reserve: 25th ID, VII Corps, VIII Corps
31/12/44
II Corps; 25th ID, 8th Field Repl. Div
7/1/45
II Corps: 9th Field Repl. Div, 25th ID
VIII Corps: 23rd Res D
19/2/45
II Corps: 20th ID, 8th Field Repl. Div
Reserve: VIII Corps, 1 st cav D
1/3/45
II Corps: 20th ID
III Panzerkorps: 25th ID, 1 Pz D, 3 Pz D, 23 Pz D
Administrative order of battle 6-41 to 4 - 42
VII Corps Miskolc
19th Inf Bde Miskolc
20th Inf Bde Eger
21st Inf Bde Losonc
VIII Corps
22nd Inf Bde Nyiregyhaza
23rd Inf Bde Kassa
24th Inf Bde Ungvar
1 st Mtn Bde Beszterce
8th Border Guard Regt Munkacs
IX Corps
25th Inf Bde Nagyvarad
26th Inf Bde Kolozsvar
27th Inf Bde Marosvasarhely
9th Border Guard Bde Cslszereda
16/9/44
IV Corps: 20th ID, 1st Armd D
VII Corps: 12thRes D, Lakatos Bde
VIII Corps: 5th Field Repl. Div, 8th Field Repl. Div
Reserve: 4th Field Repl. Div, 6th Field Repl. Div
13/10/44
VIII Corps: 23rd Res D 5th Field Repl. Div, 8th Field Repl. Div
LVII Panzerkorps: 20th ID , 1st Cav D, 4 SS PzG D
Rreserve Szt Laszlo D
5/11/44
VIII Corps: 20th ID 5th Field Repl. Div, 8th Field Repl. Div
LXXII Armeekorps: 25th ID, 76th ID
Rreserve Szt Laszlo D
26/11/44
II Corps: 23rd Res d, 1st River Bde
LXXII Armeekorps: 25th ID, 76th ID
reserve: 25th ID, VII Corps, VIII Corps
31/12/44
II Corps; 25th ID, 8th Field Repl. Div
7/1/45
II Corps: 9th Field Repl. Div, 25th ID
VIII Corps: 23rd Res D
19/2/45
II Corps: 20th ID, 8th Field Repl. Div
Reserve: VIII Corps, 1 st cav D
1/3/45
II Corps: 20th ID
III Panzerkorps: 25th ID, 1 Pz D, 3 Pz D, 23 Pz D
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Abel Ravasz
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 22:46
- Location: Hungary/Slovakia
thanks that helps alot. Though one question I have noted after the Bde there is a town listed such as Kolosvar, Kassa does this reflect where the unit was formed or just a Hungarian style of naming units as in the Italian army at that time (i.e. 13th "Re", 27th Brescia. Also anything on the commanders of those units that is Brigader Generales? you say you got this from "The Royal Hungarian Army 1920 - 1945". i have heard alot about it and is regarded as a very good one of the Hungarian army in the English language. Though sadly I have not seen it in American bookstores do you know if it has "hit" stateside yet? Or would ordering it on-line be my best bet?
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Andrew Telford
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- Joined: 05 Nov 2003, 16:15
- Location: UK
Hungarian unit identification
Hello Gyenes,
The basic military symbols used by the Hungarian Army resemble those used by the Germans, however the meanings are often different.
The Hungarians usually place the numerical designation of the unit to the right or below the symbol. A small number in parentheses under the symbol indicates the number of guns/vehicles within the unit.
GHQ units were attached directly to General Staff, GHQ units generally carried numbers over 100, sometimes 100 + the Army number.
Independent companies, battalions & batteries number were followed by ‘ö’ which is the abbreviated önallo – ‘Independent’
Eg. 102. Önálló Zászlóalj Harckocsi (102nd Independent Tank Battalion)
Corps troops used Roman numerals, Corps sub-units carried the same number as the parent formation.
Eg. II Corps (Székesfehérvár), II Independent Heavy Artillery (mot) (Komárom)
Brigades used Arabic numbers, Brigade sub-units also carried the same number as its parent fomation.
Eg. 7th Brigade (Miskolc) 7th Artillery Battalion (Miskolc) the individual batteries would be 7./II, 7./II etc.
Divisions used Arabic numbers, division organic sub-units carried the Divisions number.
Eg. 6th Infantry Division, 6th Recce Battalion, 6th Antiaircraft company, 6th Signal Battalion etc
Infantry & Artillery Battalions when part of a Regiment were identified by Roman numerals, preceded by the Regimental Number.
Eg. 6th Infantry Division (Komáron)
3./I 3rd Infantry Regiment/Ist Battalion (Székesfehérvár)
3./II 3rd Infantry Regiment/2nd Battalion (Táta)
3./III 3rd Infantry Regiment/3rd Battalion (Székesfehérvár)
The town name after a unit is where the unit was garrisoned/stationed.
Individual battalions of regiments were not always stationed in the same location of its HQ, however they were within the same Corps area.
Eg. The 3. Harckocsiezred (3rd Tank Regiment) was stationed in the V Corps area, the 3/I. Harckocsizászlóalj (Tank Battalion) was stationed at Cegléd along with the HQ elements, 3./II was stationed at Kecskemét and the 3./III was located at Kiskunhalás.
Unless someone beats me to it I will get back with some information on The book.
Hope this helps
Andrew Telford
The basic military symbols used by the Hungarian Army resemble those used by the Germans, however the meanings are often different.
The Hungarians usually place the numerical designation of the unit to the right or below the symbol. A small number in parentheses under the symbol indicates the number of guns/vehicles within the unit.
GHQ units were attached directly to General Staff, GHQ units generally carried numbers over 100, sometimes 100 + the Army number.
Independent companies, battalions & batteries number were followed by ‘ö’ which is the abbreviated önallo – ‘Independent’
Eg. 102. Önálló Zászlóalj Harckocsi (102nd Independent Tank Battalion)
Corps troops used Roman numerals, Corps sub-units carried the same number as the parent formation.
Eg. II Corps (Székesfehérvár), II Independent Heavy Artillery (mot) (Komárom)
Brigades used Arabic numbers, Brigade sub-units also carried the same number as its parent fomation.
Eg. 7th Brigade (Miskolc) 7th Artillery Battalion (Miskolc) the individual batteries would be 7./II, 7./II etc.
Divisions used Arabic numbers, division organic sub-units carried the Divisions number.
Eg. 6th Infantry Division, 6th Recce Battalion, 6th Antiaircraft company, 6th Signal Battalion etc
Infantry & Artillery Battalions when part of a Regiment were identified by Roman numerals, preceded by the Regimental Number.
Eg. 6th Infantry Division (Komáron)
3./I 3rd Infantry Regiment/Ist Battalion (Székesfehérvár)
3./II 3rd Infantry Regiment/2nd Battalion (Táta)
3./III 3rd Infantry Regiment/3rd Battalion (Székesfehérvár)
The town name after a unit is where the unit was garrisoned/stationed.
Individual battalions of regiments were not always stationed in the same location of its HQ, however they were within the same Corps area.
Eg. The 3. Harckocsiezred (3rd Tank Regiment) was stationed in the V Corps area, the 3/I. Harckocsizászlóalj (Tank Battalion) was stationed at Cegléd along with the HQ elements, 3./II was stationed at Kecskemét and the 3./III was located at Kiskunhalás.
Unless someone beats me to it I will get back with some information on The book.
Hope this helps
Andrew Telford
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Andrew Telford
- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: 05 Nov 2003, 16:15
- Location: UK
Book information
Hello again Gyenes,
information as promised
There are a couple of references on the Hungarian armed forces available in English, the first book to get hold of is The Royal Hungarian Army 1920-1945 by Leo Neihorster, published by Axiseuropa (http://www.axiseuropa.com) ISBN 1-891227-19-X
Whilst the copyright is 1998, I believe it became available around 1999, my copy was imported into the UK from Axiseuropa, I would try them first.
If you do a ‘google’ search you will come up with a few online reviews of the book, take these as you will.
http://stonebooks.com/archives/990218.shtml
http://www.militarytour.com/booksart/Bo ... Hungar.htm
What you get roughly for your dollars is 317 pages of text, OOB, schematic tables, maps and 1 photo on the dust jacket.
Next is The Royal Hungarian Army Vol II The Mobile Forces, also published by Axiseuropa described as the second volume to Leo’s tome………….its not! It is actually by Peter Mujzer, it looks like Axiseuropa have a few copies.
http://www.axiseuropa.com/mall/Hungarian.htm
There were very few of these published as Peter had Axiseuropa stop printing the book, Axis did not make a particularly good job of it.
It is now available on a CDROM produced by Peter himself and is exactly the same as the ‘paper’ version for textual content, however this has 80+ high resoloution unseen photos from Peters private collection (the book did not have these!) and new artwork for the regimental emblems and national markings. Textual info is reasonable, however not to the depth of Leo Nehorsters work.
Peter Mujzer is a respected author in Hungary and has a few articles/books to his name, nearly all of which are in Hungarian.
You can order the Cd from Peter direct at [email protected]
There is an online site with some sample pages, I have misplaced this at present, perhaps someone else has it handy?
Another English Language source is The Hungarian Army & its Leadership in World War II
By Andris Kursitis again published by Axiseuropa, concentrates mainly on the officer Corps of the Hungarian Forces, a further book by this chap was self published and is titled The Royal Hungarian Armed Forces 19-1945, sorry I do not have a copy so cannot comment on this one.
http://www.angelraybooks.com/books/axis/0019ae.htm
After these books you are limited to small articles in various magazines, usually dealing with a particular vehicle………….unless you read Hungarian??
Hope this is of some use
Andrew Telford
information as promised
There are a couple of references on the Hungarian armed forces available in English, the first book to get hold of is The Royal Hungarian Army 1920-1945 by Leo Neihorster, published by Axiseuropa (http://www.axiseuropa.com) ISBN 1-891227-19-XWhilst the copyright is 1998, I believe it became available around 1999, my copy was imported into the UK from Axiseuropa, I would try them first.
If you do a ‘google’ search you will come up with a few online reviews of the book, take these as you will.
http://stonebooks.com/archives/990218.shtml
http://www.militarytour.com/booksart/Bo ... Hungar.htm
What you get roughly for your dollars is 317 pages of text, OOB, schematic tables, maps and 1 photo on the dust jacket.
Next is The Royal Hungarian Army Vol II The Mobile Forces, also published by Axiseuropa described as the second volume to Leo’s tome………….its not! It is actually by Peter Mujzer, it looks like Axiseuropa have a few copies.
http://www.axiseuropa.com/mall/Hungarian.htm
There were very few of these published as Peter had Axiseuropa stop printing the book, Axis did not make a particularly good job of it.
It is now available on a CDROM produced by Peter himself and is exactly the same as the ‘paper’ version for textual content, however this has 80+ high resoloution unseen photos from Peters private collection (the book did not have these!) and new artwork for the regimental emblems and national markings. Textual info is reasonable, however not to the depth of Leo Nehorsters work.
Peter Mujzer is a respected author in Hungary and has a few articles/books to his name, nearly all of which are in Hungarian.
You can order the Cd from Peter direct at [email protected]
There is an online site with some sample pages, I have misplaced this at present, perhaps someone else has it handy?
Another English Language source is The Hungarian Army & its Leadership in World War II
By Andris Kursitis again published by Axiseuropa, concentrates mainly on the officer Corps of the Hungarian Forces, a further book by this chap was self published and is titled The Royal Hungarian Armed Forces 19-1945, sorry I do not have a copy so cannot comment on this one.
http://www.angelraybooks.com/books/axis/0019ae.htm
After these books you are limited to small articles in various magazines, usually dealing with a particular vehicle………….unless you read Hungarian??
Hope this is of some use
Andrew Telford
That is great help. I will have to look into purchasing some of the books you have mentioned as it is so hard to find any info on the Hungarian armed forces (or on Hungary at all for that matter) in the English language. Also because "Sajnos csak egy kicsit tudok magyarul".(Unfortunately, I only know a little Hungarian) Again thanks for the help.
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Andrew Telford
- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: 05 Nov 2003, 16:15
- Location: UK
Partial answer to the original question
Gents,
rather late, however here are the Corps & Brigade commanders of various elements of the Third Army on the 9th April 1941, two days before crossing the Hungarian-Yugoslavian border.
Hungarian language designation in brackets.
Ranks vary between sources and even within a single source, however they vary by only one rank.
Third Army General (Vezérezredes) vitéz Elemér Gorondy-Novák
Mobile Corps (Third Army reserves) General vitéz Miklós
1st Motorised Brigade – General vitéz Jenö Major
2nd Motorised Brigade – Colonel (Ezredes) vitéz János Vörös
2nd Cavalry Brigade – Brig-General (Vezérönagy) Antal Vattay
I Corps – Major-General (Vezérörnagy) Zoltán Decleva
1st Inf. Brigade – General Aggteleky
2nd Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Dömötör
3rd Inf. Brigade – General Lemberkovics
IV Corps – Major- General vitéz László Horváth
10th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Peterdy
11th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Péchy
12 Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Török
V Corps – General Antal Silley
13th Inf. Brigade – General Graf Stomm
14th Unf. Brigade – General Platthy
15th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Csatáry
VII Corps – General vitéz Gyula Nagy
19th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Asztolossy
20th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Kovács
21st Inf. Brigade -General vitéz Tarny
Reserves
1st Independent Parachute Battalion – Lieutenant-Colonel (Alezredes) vitéz Bertalan
River Flotilla – Captain (Százados) Captain vitéz Tasnády
Regards
Andrew Telford
rather late, however here are the Corps & Brigade commanders of various elements of the Third Army on the 9th April 1941, two days before crossing the Hungarian-Yugoslavian border.
Hungarian language designation in brackets.
Ranks vary between sources and even within a single source, however they vary by only one rank.
Third Army General (Vezérezredes) vitéz Elemér Gorondy-Novák
Mobile Corps (Third Army reserves) General vitéz Miklós
1st Motorised Brigade – General vitéz Jenö Major
2nd Motorised Brigade – Colonel (Ezredes) vitéz János Vörös
2nd Cavalry Brigade – Brig-General (Vezérönagy) Antal Vattay
I Corps – Major-General (Vezérörnagy) Zoltán Decleva
1st Inf. Brigade – General Aggteleky
2nd Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Dömötör
3rd Inf. Brigade – General Lemberkovics
IV Corps – Major- General vitéz László Horváth
10th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Peterdy
11th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Péchy
12 Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Török
V Corps – General Antal Silley
13th Inf. Brigade – General Graf Stomm
14th Unf. Brigade – General Platthy
15th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Csatáry
VII Corps – General vitéz Gyula Nagy
19th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Asztolossy
20th Inf. Brigade – General vitéz Kovács
21st Inf. Brigade -General vitéz Tarny
Reserves
1st Independent Parachute Battalion – Lieutenant-Colonel (Alezredes) vitéz Bertalan
River Flotilla – Captain (Százados) Captain vitéz Tasnády
Regards
Andrew Telford
Hi Gyenes,
The Knightly Order of Vitéz was initiated by Admiral Horthy after he became Regent of Hungary and was awarded for exceptional service to the nation. The first award was to Field Marshal Archduke Jozsef (21 August 1921), and the recipients of the award carried the title vitéz. The closest translation of this would be Ritter in German, or Chevalier in French.
AJK
The Knightly Order of Vitéz was initiated by Admiral Horthy after he became Regent of Hungary and was awarded for exceptional service to the nation. The first award was to Field Marshal Archduke Jozsef (21 August 1921), and the recipients of the award carried the title vitéz. The closest translation of this would be Ritter in German, or Chevalier in French.
AJK