CZAR BORIS OF BULGARIA

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GLADIVM
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CZAR BORIS OF BULGARIA

#1

Post by GLADIVM » 26 Aug 2002, 06:30

At the death of Czar Boris of Bulgaria and thereafter , it had always been rumored that was Hitler who kad Boris killed .
In some accounts by means of poison and elsewhere by having the airplane who carried him back to Bulgaria after a meeting with Hitler to take sudden dips and changing altitude often in order to make him sick .
It has never been established conclusively how the king of bulgaria died and for one I have doubts that hitler was involved in his death .
The Fuhrer does not sound like a subtle individual and is preferred methods were very direct if he had to deal with enemies , and is much more likely that he would have sent Skorzeny and a Panzer division , as happened in Italy , Hungary and was tried in Romania , than use poison or other melodramamtic methods .
I know Hitler loathed Boris and resented that Bulgaria did not declare war to USSR but if he wanted him out of job would have use forceful arguments of arms .
I do not know if recently after demise of comunist governement in Bulgaria , have been shed some light about king Boris fate , does anyone have any information to solve this mystery . If I recall correctly , King Boris had an heart condition and may be he died of natural causes .
I believe that being King not authopsy was carried out and therefore the real cause of death will never be know but some speculations can be made .
Now that prime minister of Bulgaria is King Boris son Simeone , may be truth might come out . Is any of the forum member living in Bulgaria ?
would anyone hepl to find informations ?

One more thing , not related to King Boris , I never heard anything about a bulgarian fascist movement , unlikely Romania or Hungary about which you can find a lot of infos , but I am sure should have been one as in the other balkan states . Does anyone have any infos about ?

GLADIVM

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Demise of King Boris

#2

Post by varjag » 26 Aug 2002, 12:49

As very comprehensive literature over a couple of centuries,point to the Bulgarians as the 'Master-mixers of Poisons' in Europe, I think we can safely exclude any rapid altitude variation by some Luftwaffe pilot - as the reason for his death.And - I agree with GLADIVM - Hitler, would have chosen a much more dramatic termination.
Could he have died from inhalation of all that coaldust on the locomotives he loved to drive? Someone who loves driving steam-locos - must have irritated Hitler - who preffered the saloon car.


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GLADIVM
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#3

Post by GLADIVM » 27 Aug 2002, 06:42

wouln't you think that it was the comunist you benefited more from King Boris death and therefore might have been the ones to poison him or accellerate his death ?

After all is much easier take over a country with a Child King than one with a strong and beloved King who would have resisted with all his strength a comunist takeover ?

Kapitan Drago
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King Boris

#4

Post by Kapitan Drago » 02 Sep 2002, 08:41

Boris was poisoned by Hitler,becouse reject to send the Bulgarian Army on the Eastern Front and dont send a single Bulgarian Jew(50 000 total) to the Conc. Camps.

There was some Nazi movement in Bulgaria as the organisation "Brannik" but Bulgarians dont suport them-historians say more then 100 nations and etnik groups are mixed in Bulgaria ,living in peace,so when they try to send the first 3000 Jews to con. camp. Bulgarian people laid on the rail road and stop th train.Not a single Bulgarian Jew was send.

"As very comprehensive literature over a couple of centuries,point to the Bulgarians as the 'Master-mixers of Poisons' in Europe"

Bla-bla. Old Bulgarians was Cavalry wariors and Slavik infantry. Three Bisantium Imperators and two Crusader Imperators died when atack Bulgaria.
My web page ,with info about Bulgarian military history:
http://hometown.aol.com/bogdanovaslava/index.html

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GLADIVM
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#5

Post by GLADIVM » 05 Sep 2002, 06:02

Dear Kapitan Drago
I am still not convinced that Hitler poisoned Czar Boris , it seems totally out of character , also Mussolini did not send any jew to Germany until after 8th sept 43 and Franco refused to attack Gibraltar but Hitler did not think to poison them and replace with more accomodating persons .
I think Boris died of natural causes , he had an heart condition i recall , or was victim of an internal plot , pls tell why you think this was not possible .

Thanks for the informations about the Brannik and pls let me know if possible to find additiona sources and infos about it .

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#6

Post by Kapitan Drago » 06 Sep 2002, 03:34

Becouse i read some interviews in Bulgarian ,with his doctor .He talk to the Tzar before he die.Tzar Boris start to fill bad in the plane on the road back to Bulgaria. most of the info in the West about Bulgarian WW2 and its army is wrong.I dont say i am 100 % shure about Tzar Boris dead, no body is shure ,but the most talk in Bulgaria is about poisoning by Hitler. The military oficers was with the Tzar. Many times the Tzar driving his car alone without any guards around the country,visiting his friends.Sound unrealistick but its true,this is small Bulgaria. Why if somebody want to kill him in Bulgaria dont do this then?No komunists was so clouse to the Tzar to have chanse to kill the Tzar.

If i found more info about Brannik and other organizations ,maybe will add it to my web page or here .This info is dificult to found,and more dificult becouse i am in USA.
My web page ,with info about Bulgarian military history:
http://hometown.aol.com/bogdanovaslava/index.html

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GLADIVM
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#7

Post by GLADIVM » 06 Sep 2002, 06:29

Thanks for yr reply , I heard before ,as you indicated that the Czar was widely respected and even loved by his people , would you help me to understand why ? It cannot be the simple fact of him being the Czar obviously it had to do with his personality .
His wife was an Italian from the Savoia family , was she also loved in Bulgaria ?

Czar Boris is an intriguing figure of whom in the west not much has been said and I would like to know more , I am aware of his efforts to keep Bulgaria out of WWII but its intervention against Jugoslavia sounds not so good , similar to the Italian intervention against France when Germany had already won . I understand that Bulgaria had real grievances against Jugoslavia & Greece but do not think occupation of Makedonia and other territories was justified by real national or population issue and the Czar in this instance do not come out so well .
If you would like to discuss this issue as well in order to make light on the Czar personality I would be glad to hear from you

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#8

Post by Kapitan Drago » 07 Sep 2002, 07:28

Ok,here some real stories.
As i say Czar Boris some time driving his car alone around the country,stop here and there and talk with regular people ,some dont even know that its the Czar.
When they build new rail road from Dupnitca to Gorna Djumaya people know the Czar will come for the celebration. Everybody expect the Czar to come with the first train,but all was suprised when he jump from the front truck with machinist dress on it .He actualy was driving the train for the last 30 miles or more.
Germans try to push Czar Boris to send Bulgarian Army on Eastern ,using their Itlian friends and you know his italian wife.She got great botanic garden in Bulgaria and every day was there to take care about the flowers,and many times she talk to him to send Bulg. troops to Eastern front. So one night Czar Boris go to the garden and kill all flowers.In the morning wnen she saw this she start to cry. Then Czar Boris tell her-You see how you cry for your flowers ,this is how i gona cry for my soldiers when i send them to the front and they get killed.
She never again talk about this.
When his son Simeon,now Prime Minister of Bulgaria was born,everybody was happy. Every student got +one point to his result at the end of the schoow year,so even the worst students do not repeat the same class.
Simoen was baptist in Bulgarian Ortodox Church ,not how the Italians want in Katolik.

People love Czar Boris for simple things like these.

Bulgarian Army actualy was only ocupation forces in Yugoslavia and Greece and do not fight,or just in small scale.This reasion Czar Boris used on the meeting with Hitler to do not send Bulgarian units to the front.He tell Hitler he need the Bulg. soldiers for ocupition dutyes and in Bulgaria againts partizans.Czar Boris dont care about Hitler ideas ,but only how to united all Bulgarians.

The population in the teritories you talking about was most % Bulgarians.These are lands taken from Bulgaria in 2nd Balkan war and WW1. After Rusian-Turkish war in 1878 the San Stefano peace was the most realy and fearly to recognize the Bulgarian teritories by nationality and population.However the Big powers was afraid from one big and powerfull Bulgaria and on Berlin congress cut Bulgaria on three .From about 5 milion population then about 2 milion have to live in teritories given to other countries or grab in the wars.
My web page ,with info about Bulgarian military history:
http://hometown.aol.com/bogdanovaslava/index.html

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Brannik
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#9

Post by Brannik » 07 Sep 2002, 19:53

Hey Gladivm
Hitler killing Boris seems to be just another bit of Allied "history".I do not think that Hitler had any benefit from doing that,all the opposite,it would have seriously risked his southern flank,since,as you have mentioned,he was probably the only serious obstacle to a communist take-over.Hence,my personal theory is that Boris was killed (if killed at all)by the communists,since as the Kapitan says,he was a truly popular figure and therefore a major obstacle to Sovietization. Another theory could point in the direction of London,the British would be the other interested party.In short,Hitler is in my view the last suspect,and the first is probably natural death.
The best biography of the Tsar that I have read is "Crown of Thorns" by Stephane Groueff.He challenges your view of Hitler despising Boris,and I am going to have to side with him on this one :D It does not answer the question of Boris' death,but it is marvelous in every other respect.I hope you can find it.
Regarding the nationalist movements in Bulgaria during the war(I don't like to call them fascist,it is a much abused and demonized term,),apart from the Branniks mentioned by the Kapitan,there was a much bigger organization created in the early 30's called (I am not sure that this is the academic english translation,I'improvising here :D )Union of the Bulgarian National Youth Legions,which had a membership of about 40 000 at its peak.The Legions weren't popular with the Tsar at all,so they were never really allowed to have a decisive influence.I have heard a rumor that the Legions made a call for volunteers to be sent to Rommel's Afrika Korps and 10 000 people enlisted,but Boris didn't let them go.There is no way for me to know if this is true.
Regards

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GLADIVM
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#10

Post by GLADIVM » 09 Sep 2002, 08:45

Thanks Brannik ,
I wiil try to find the book you mentioned , do you know the editor ? it would help if can indicate it to my bookshop .

The Kapitan indicated that in Bulgaria there are many , as many as 100 etnic goups , I can think of some , Bulgarians , Turkish , Makedonian , Greeks , Serbs , but cannot go much further , would you help to have a better understanding of Bulgaria heritage and add some other groups .

Also I know that a Bulgarian Minister , do not recall if Foreign minister or Prime minister fought Hitler about the deportation of Jews and was due to him and Boris that no jew was deported , a book has been written about this man but I cannot now find it , would you help me to honour the memory of this brave man and find his name .
I recall that after the war is was imprisoned by the bolsheviks as a reward for his courage and dedication .

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#11

Post by David Thompson » 09 Sep 2002, 22:15

Gladivm -- Are you thinking about Dimitar Peshev -- "The Man Who Stopped Hitler"?
http://peshev.org/

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#12

Post by GLADIVM » 10 Sep 2002, 06:58

Thanks david ,
the link is very good , yes I meant him .

GLADIVM

Kapitan Drago
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#13

Post by Kapitan Drago » 11 Sep 2002, 02:29

"The Kapitan indicated that in Bulgaria there are many , as many as 100 etnic goups , I can think of some , Bulgarians , Turkish , Makedonian , Greeks , Serbs , but cannot go much further , would you help to have a better understanding of Bulgaria heritage and add some other groups . "

Ok i dont remembar all them .For some i heard for first time. The historians count for more then 1300 years Bulgarian history before Bulgarians come to the Balkans ,like Huns,Avars,Pechenegs,Gipsis,Slavs (itself there are many diferend Slavik groups ),Tracians,Armenians...
My web page ,with info about Bulgarian military history:
http://hometown.aol.com/bogdanovaslava/index.html

gabriel pagliarani
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drago

#14

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 11 Sep 2002, 03:56

Dear Kpt. Drago,
have you other fine anecdotes for us, like the cut of the flowers of the Queen? It is incredible how much the people beloved Tsar Boris! But I cannot really think that Hitler killed him: not by mean of Hitler' habit (he was able to kill everybody) but venom was out of his own gangster's style. Why such a waste of time in venoms when a pistol cut away any problem in 2 seconds? A man who killed by drilling with machine guns his best allied (Rohm and SA during the "night of long knives") only a little before free elections, had no care about what other people could think about him! At the contrary venom was in the style of Stalin, able to massacre Trotskji in Mexico by using a common friend. It is only a question regarding style. Berja masked that operation with a false general fight for spies in URSS just called "smert spionom". ( I pretend to fight a political ipothetical enemy of workers' class and in the while I am killing my personal enemy: public opinion follows the false signal)

Ciao Capitano!
Gabriel Pagliarani

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GLADIVM
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#15

Post by GLADIVM » 11 Sep 2002, 06:31

Dear Capitan ,
Thanks for indicating some of the ethnic groups comprising the bulgarian people , of course I did not expect you to indicate 100 groups , yr explanation that included ethnic peoples from far away past of bulgarian history is satisfactory , just one more thing and am sure you can help , where did the bulgarians come from ? and around what time settled in Bulgaria ?

Regarding King Boris I believe he was of German origin I think is family was Saxe Coburg or Gotha , would you pls confirm if correct .

Thanks

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