April 1942, Eastern Front

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » 24 Apr 2002 10:03

Hi,

AFAIK, Italy, Rumania, Hungary and Finland all had full armies engaged in the war against Soviet Union. Each command was leading his own troops, sometimes sending some under German Command, sometimes being reinforced by German formations.

All of their efforts were coordinated with German "strategy". I agree that Finland was a special case as it was the more independant ally of Germany.

Regarding goals of war, Rumania has the same than Finland, recovering territories lost to the Soviet Union in 1940 and destroy the menace for their country.

Hungary has no real choice, German pressure and chances of success were too great to stay out of war. But even in end 1942, most of the Hungarian and Rumanin armies were facing each other.

When you count the number of Axis divisions on East Front, excluding Finnish isn't fair to me :
_ if you exclude them because there was no big campain here between 42 and 44, well why not exclude most of Army Group Center and North in the same time, at least for summer 42. And for sure, exclude German troops in Lapland, no big fight here between winter 42 and october 44.

_ second, when you give Soviet order of battle, you will certainly not substract the troops facing the Finnish armies. Finland continued to fix Soviet troups in 1942.

Regards

Laurent

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 24 Apr 2002 19:59

MVSNConsolegenerale wrote:

the question you should be asking is why Germany allowed its allies to send troops in, something which they didn't want on June 22.

Huh?

Then why where Romanian and Finish (I think) forces engaged from the very first day of the war? The rest of the allies followed soon after that.

MVSNConsolegenerale wrote:

They sent people into Russia because they wanted a piece of the Soviet Pie.

You really don’t know anything about Germany’s allies, do you?

MVSNConsolegenerale · Post by **MVSNConsolegenerale** » 24 Apr 2002 20:34

You're right, most of the information I have is from OKW records. From their point of view, the Allies of Germany really didn't fit into the picture until after the Moscow Assault. Maybe it is just pride on their part, but from what I can tell from their records it didn't seem there was a sizable foreign involvement in operation Barbarossa. When the OKW does begin to mention foreign elements, it is a drive to keep a defensive front in operation in 42.

I also know that where italy was concerned, Göring himself had to plead with Count Ciano (the foreign minister) to send in troops in 42. Mussolini sent troops because he was glad the soveit union had given the germans a 'black eye' but was convinced they were doomed in a matter of months and wanted to play some part in their destruction.

As for the other allies of the axis, I'm not sure of their point of view. I could definately be wrong only operating from Italy and Germany's standpoint.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 26 Apr 2002 20:21

The initial Romanian contribution was well over 300,000 men on 22 June. I really don't see how so many men didn't fit in the "picture". Hitler asked Antonescu to contribute with troops after Bessarabia (Romania's motive for the war against the SU) was liberated. I don't know how you got to your opinions from the OKW records, but they are definately way off.

Polynike · Post by **Polynike** » 26 Apr 2002 21:47

i suppose that most of the axis troops in russia were there in an anti-communist capacity, certainly spain and italy. eastern european axis partmers,eg romania and bulgaria were there to gain some slice or other of soviet territory. indeed beevor in stalingrad that romanian soldiers were questioning the relevance of continuing the fight once bessarabia had been recaptured

MVSNConsolegenerale · Post by **MVSNConsolegenerale** » 27 Apr 2002 01:18

those are the impressions I got, I should probably reread some of my sources...probably clear things up. If your right about that number I presume either my sources are incorrect or i missed something.

I'll inform you what i find out.

Daniel S. · Post by **Daniel S.** » 27 Apr 2002 01:57

In my opinion there are multiple reasons for the countries who were on Germany side in WW2:
1.to take back some territories stolen by Stalin(eg Romania and
Finland)
2.due to political regims from these countries,right-wing regims,
right-wing leaders,who prefer Nazi Germany from personal
belives.
3.due to political interests-they have no chose and prefer an
alliance with Germany rather then Soviet Union.
Hoping that a part of truth has been said,regards.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Apr 2002 07:13

Well polynike, Bulgaria didn't participate on the eastern front.
PS: Nice to see other guys from the onwar.com forum here.

Huckebein · Post by **Huckebein** » 27 Apr 2002 08:25

There was a very good reason for which Romania should have continued its war efort in SU even after regaining Bessarabia, regardless of Hitler request to do so. After your armies liberate a teritory you can't ask enemy forces in front of you to simply stop, they will continue to atack you for as much time as they are capable to do it. And in '41 soviet armies in the southern sector were very strong (if not the strongest soviet forces), because of the strategic importance of Ukraine. So Romania was constrained to press on.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » 27 Apr 2002 11:21

Daniel S,

Welcome to the forum.

/Marcus

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Apr 2002 13:25

Marcus, looks like the number of Romanians on your forum is increasing. So far we are 8 or 9... 8)

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » 27 Apr 2002 15:24

Victor,

Yes, it seems you are correct about that.

/Marcus

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » 29 Apr 2002 06:39

MVSNConsolegenerale wrote:You're right, most of the information I have is from OKW records. From their point of view, the Allies of Germany really didn't fit into the picture until after the Moscow Assault. Maybe it is just pride on their part, but from what I can tell from their records it didn't seem there was a sizable foreign involvement in operation barbarosa. When the OKW does begin to mention foreign elements, it is a drive to keep a defensive front in operation in 42.

I also know that where italy was concerned, goering himself had to plead with count ciano (the foreign minister) to send in troops in 42. Mussolini sent troops because he was glad the soveit union had given the germans a 'black eye' but was convinced they were doomed in a matter of months and wanted to play some part in their destruction.

As for the other allies of the axis, I'm not sure of their point of view. I could definately be wrong only operating from Italy and Germany's standpoint.

From all my experience in studying history, almost everytime there is an alliance involved, in case of success, each country will forget or reduce the contribution of its allies in his official history, in case of defeat, it will mainly be the allies' fault.....

Regards

Laurent

Polynike · Post by **Polynike** » 01 May 2002 19:00

Victor wrote:Well polynike, Bulgaria didn't participate on the eastern front.
PS: Nice to see other guys from the onwar.com forum here.

sorry victor meant to say Hungary

Axis History Forum

April 1942, Eastern Front

All from OKW Records...

ah well...

Reasons

Re: All from OKW Records...