Croatian Legion in Stalingrad

[Octavianus]

Ave,

First of all, can someone explain to me what does a tie and Sigvet battle got to do with the Croatian Legion in Stalingrad? I also don't know the purpose of one Wolffen by distributing a photo of a member of the Black Legion with a chopped head of one Chetnik leader to the other forum members. I can't speak for other people, but that's very much primitive to me, irresponsible and balkanic. Don't know since when Marco Polo is a Croat, but there are something things which certainly suprises you each day. I guess Nikola Tesla is a Croat too, although he was actually of an Orthodox faith, a?

Krilnik Jure Francetic was born in 1912 in Otocac in the province of Lika. He attend a gymnasium in Senj and Otocac and later went to the Zagreb University where he studied law and joined the Ustasha Movement in the same year. He was soon arrested because of anti-Yugoslav and pro-Ustasha propaganda and banned from Zagreb for five years. On the other hand, I believe Ante Pavelic was born in Bosnia and Herzegowina.

Crna Legija was formed in Sarajewo in mid-1941 by Major Jure Francetic and Lieutenant Rafael Boban, and was origianlly made up of two battalions, the 1st Ustasha Marching Active Battalion and the Active Battalion of the city of Sarajewo. At the beginning of 1942, the third battalion, the II. Ustasha Railway Battalion, reinforced the Legion. The official name of the Black Legion was the Sarajewo Ustasha Brigade or the I. Ustasha Marching Acting Brigade. Shortly after Francetic's death at the Mocilo Village near Slunj, his Black Legion was disbanded or better to say reorganized into the V. Ustasha Active Marching Brigade, also called the Boban's Black Legion, named after its commander Bojnik Rafael Boban.

The Croatian Army surrendered on May 15th 1945 at an Austrian town of Bleiburg (or Pliberk in Slovene literature), handed over to the Yugoslav partisans, who massacred the majority of troops at three main localities and these are around the transit prison camp of Teharje, a small hamlet near Celje (Cilli), in the Kren pits in Kocevski Rog and at the anti-tank ditch near Tezno. There is around a dozen of other massive graves with Croatian soldiers lying it, one have been recently found at Lancovo (sp??), where apparently are buried the members of the Croatian government and some other prominent government and military officials and the other one is in one abandonded mine pit near Hrastnik. Those who survived the death marches were distributed in various transit labour prison camps through whole Yugoslavia even up to Macedonia and Vojwodina, where many of them died because of starvation, harsh labour and various diseases. The mass executions of POWs aka Kocevski Rog style which were carefully planned and carried out ended around June/July 1945. German POWs were spared of mass executions in May-July 1945, but majority of them died later in various prisoner-of-war camps, the Werschetz (Vrsac) POW Camp being one of the most notorious ones.

Gratiam,

Octavianus

[KingTomislav]

"Francetic, an Ustashe colonel, was born in Prozor [Bosnia-Hercegovina] on July 3, 1921, and died near Otocac on December 27, 1943. He graduated from high school in Krizevci in 1931 and then attended a law school. At the law school he was active in the HSP youth. He was several times arrested and jailed for his political activities. In March 1933 he went to Austria and then to Italy, where he was given the rank of Ustashe captain. When V. Servatzy took over in 1934 the command of the camp in Janko-pusta [in Hungary], Francetic became his deputy. In 1936 he returned to Italy and was interned at the island of Giglio. In late 1937 he returned to Croatia and was banished to his hometown. However, in 1938 he managed to make it to Zagreb, where he intended to continue his studies, but was soon afterwards called up to serve his mandatory military service in Nis [Serbia].

"After the military service he returned to Zagreb and continued to work on Ustashe propaganda, to distribute fliers and brochures. In Lika he recruited and organized new members of the Ustashe movement. Because of these activities he was arrested in late 1940 and sentenced to a term in prison and banishment from Zagreb. In late 1941, he escaped to Germany. After the proclamation of the NDH he returned to the homeland, and Pavelic in April appointed him for an Ustashe governor of Bosnia. In Sarajevo he worked on the establishment of new authorities and the organization of Ustashe military and police units. In September of 1942, after the death of Becir Lokmic, he took over the command of the units of the Sarajevo Ustashe Camp that were soon transformed into the Black legion. After successful actions of the Black Legion in east Bosnia he was promoted to the rank of the Ustashe lieutenant colonel.

"On April 10, 1942, from the banks of the Drina River he sent a telegram to Pavelic stating that the Croatian Army had taken control of the eastern historical borders of the country [NDH included Bosnia-Hercegovina]. He was promoted to the rank of Ustashe colonel after successful actions in Kupres and around Bugojno, where the Black Legion was sent in July 1942.

"In September 1942 he escorted Pavelic during his visits to Hitler and Croatian legionnaires at the eastern front [near Stalingrad]. On the way to a new task in Lika, where he was supposed to take over the command of the local Domobran and Ustashe units, his airplane had a forced landing because of a sabotage on its engine. The airplane landed near the village of Mocilo near Slunj. During the landing, Partisans wounded Francetic seriously and he was transported to Slunj where he died soon afterwards. He was posthumously decorated as a knight and promoted to a higher military rank.

"During his life was been celebrated in songs published in magazines. In 1945 in Zagreb a booklet was published under title 'Folk Songs about Knight Jure Francetic'".

The founder and first commander of Black Legion was a muslim Croat Becir Lokmic.

ZDS

[Octavianus]

Salve!

Francetic, an Ustashe colonel, was born in Prozor [Bosnia-Hercegovina] on July 3, 1921, and died near Otocac on December 27, 1943.

I stand by my version, id est he was born in Otocac and not in Prozor. It seems Mr Zvonko Dizdar from the Croatian Institute for History made some mistakes about Colonel Francetic. He was not born on July 3, 1921, but on 3 July 1912. Also I don't think he attended a high school in Krizevci, a small town southeast of Varazdin, as it don't make sense much, does it? There is a long way from Prozor to Krizevci. Besides that I doubt he was nominated for a Colonel at the age of 21!

On the other hand, as I have pinpointed in my previous message, Poglavnik Dr. Ante Pavelic was born in Herzegowina, in a small village of Bradina near Konjic in 1889 what is relatively close to Prozor. It is interestingly though, that Pavelic's father was apparently from Otocac as well.

By the way: selo Mocilo is near Slunj and not Otocac.

The founder and first commander of Black Legion was a muslim Croat Becir Lokmic.

This whole story about Lokmic being the founder of the Black Legion is taken from the book "HOS 1941-1945, Buenos Aires, 1985 (p.31). Since Satnik Becir Lokmic died in action in July 1942 as an officer in the 2nd Company of the I. Ustasha Battalion, this whole story about him being the first commander of the Black Legion what alone to be its original founder iremains pretty dubious.

Hope this helped to straight some things.

Octavianus

[Wolffen]

Octavianus

First of all, can someone explain to me what does a tie and Sigvet battle got to do with the Croatian Legion in Stalingrad? I also don't know the purpose of one Wolffen by distributing a photo of a member of the Black Legion with a chopped head of one Chetnik leader to the other forum members. I can't speak for other people, but that's very much primitive to me, irresponsible and balkanic. Don't know since when Marco Polo is a Croat, but there are something things which certainly suprises you each day. I guess Nikola Tesla is a Croat too, although he was actually of an Orthodox faith, a?

First of all I did not post that pick!!!! Look again! Double check before making accusations!

Second Marko Polo is Croatian! And that is a hard fact

Third Nikola Tesla is a Croat he was born in Croatia his father was a Serbian or half Serbian I believe he was from Lika. It usually works that in which country you are born and grown up in is the country that you are from. And what does faith have to do with it. So according to your theory American Buddhists Hindus Muslims are not American because they are not Protestants ? Now that is Balkan thinking for you

[Octavianus]

Ave!

First of all I did not post that pick!!!! Look again! Double check before making accusations!

Actually I could say the same for you. I haven't accused anyone, but I find it terribly annoying that 80% of the messages under the topic of "Croatian Legion in Stalingrad" were dedicated to the fact that Croats apparently invented the tie or who contributed more troops at Sigvet battle. I ask myself here what does all these to do with the Croatian Legion at Stalingrad. It's fine thta Croatians invented a tie, but so did many other nations invented hundreds of other useful things, which are used today by the people of Croatia too.

Second Marko Polo is Croatian! And that is a hard fact.

If so, prove it. I have never seen, heard or read about Marco Polo ever proclaiming himself as a Croat. The fact that he was supposedly born on Korcula Island does not automatically made him a Croatian citizen, especially if we take into consideration that large parts of Croatian coast at that time were still populated by Romanic speaking inhabitants.

Third Nikola Tesla is a Croat he was born in Croatia his father was a Serbian or half Serbian I believe he was from Lika. It usually works that in which country you are born and grown up in is the country that you are from. And what does faith have to do with it.

As far as I could understood and known Herr Nikola Tesla was born in a Serbian family which lived in Croatia, so technically speaking he was a member of a Serbian minority in Croatia. The fact that he was born in Croatia does not automatically means that he considered himself a Croat, unless he specifically stated that. For example: Before 1860 there was a lot of foreign officials (German, Hungarian, Slovene and Czech) living and working in Croatia with their families, some of them were in Croatia for quite some time, and many of their children were born in Zagreb, Osijek, Karlstadt or Fiume. After the state agreement was concluded between the Croatians and Hungarians in 1861, many of these foreign clerks went home with their families. Now, according to your logic, all those children of these foreign officials who were born in Croatia have thus automatically became a Croatian subject. Sorry, but things don't work on that way. It is important what the people think and not where have you bee born.

Hannibal was born in Carthago too, but this does not make him a Tunisian, does it?

So according to your theory American Buddhists Hindus Muslims are not American because they are not Protestants ? Now that is Balkan thinking for you.

Current events in Croatia speak for itself.

Gratiam,

Octavianus

[Wolffen]

Octavianus

I haven't accused anyone

I also don't know the purpose of one Wolffen by distributing a photo of a member of the Black Legion with a chopped head of one Chetnik leader to the other forum members. I can't speak for other people, but that's very much primitive to me, irresponsible and balkanic.

Well you knind of did but that ok!



Well don’t know people started to go of track and the topick was already go so why not. so I decided to do the same and bring out some Croatian propaganda. If Serbs do it so will we! Cos they made there version of things that everyone buys. Like the nonsense that JNA retreated form Croatia during operations storm and lighting. Well for Marko Polo it rally easy to prove come to Korcula and you can visit his birth home! His parents were Croatians so he is Croatian. And for teals in moth Croatian historic books he said to be Croatian guess he felt like a Croatian don’t know, don’t have too much info on it some sure here will know.

Octavianus you Italian or from Balkans?


I know that many nations invented many things but what pissed me off is that Croatian inventions are prescribed to other nations so my goal is to correct those injustices and the truth to come out!

That not all Croatians invented

Croatians invented

Neck Tie
Torpedo
Penkalo (ink pen)
Parachute

Octavianus

Current events in Croatia speak for itself.

What events?

[Octavianus]

Ave!

Well don’t know people started to go of track and the topick was already go so why not. so I decided to do the same and bring out some Croatian propaganda. If Serbs do it so will we!

Long live the Balkan!

Cos they made there version of things that everyone buys. Like the nonsense that JNA retreated form Croatia during operations storm and lighting.

From what I have seen in mid. 1990s by the time the Croatian Army launched its successfull operations in Lika and Knin area, the Serbian Krajina army was pretty much in collaps like the April 1941

Marko Polo it rally easy to prove come to Korcula and you can visit his birth home! His parents were Croatians so he is Croatian. And for teals in moth Croatian historic books he said to be Croatian guess he felt like a Croatian don’t know, don’t have too much info on it some sure here will know.

Actually the Polo family still remains much a mystery. According to one authority, the Polo family were great nobles originating on the coast of Dalmatia. Niccolo and Maffeo had established a trading outpost on the island of Curzola (Korcula), off the coast of Dalmatia; it is not certain whether Marco Polo was born there or in Venice in 1254.

I know that many nations invented many things but what pissed me off is that Croatian inventions are prescribed to other nations so my goal is to correct those injustices and the truth to come out!

Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but Croatians are doing the same with some famous celebreties. I guess each nation likes doing that, especially smaller ones such as Croatia.

I'll thrust on your word that you invented a pen and a neck tie, but the story about Croatians inventing a torpedo is a bit dubious, although it is true that the torpedo was invented respectively developed in a factory in Fiume, which is today Rijeka in Croatia.

This is an exceprt from the NAVIES IN TRANSITION: A History of the Torpedo The Early Days By Geoff Kirby; First Publish in the Journal of the Royal Navy Scientific Service Vol 27 No 1.

Whitehead's Flash of Genius

Robert Whitehead was born at Bolton in 1823, the son of the owner of a cotton-bleaching business. He was apprenticed at 14 to an engineer and there after travelled widely throughout Europe showing the way to improve silk-weaving machinery. In 1856 he became manager of an Austrian engineering company, Stabilimeno Technico Fiumano. The company was heavily engaged in providing engines for the Austrian Navy which was at war with Italy. It was through Whitehead's connections with the Navy that he was approached by a Captain Giovanni de Luppis who had an idea for controlling a spar torpedo boat remotely by two ropes strung out from the tiller. Whitehead built a model but decided that the idea was not viable.

He did however start to think about the problem of setting off explosive charges remotely below a ship's waterline-this being far more effective than above water bombardment. In 1866 his ideas took shape in the form of the first automobile torpedo.

The weapon was built with the help of Whitehead's 12 year-old son and an old workman. The exact form of this first weapon is not known because Whitehead never revealed drawings even many years later and refused to describe the machine to inquirers. Eyewitness accounts describe it as blunt nosed "like a dolphin" with four long fins extending almost along the whole body length. The engine was driven by compressed air stored at 370 p.s.i. and regulated to approximately constant speed by a simple valve. The engine is generally described as a twin cylinder Vee but this probably refers to the later models of 1868. The original engine was based on two eccentric cylinders having a sliding vane to divide the volume into two parts. In this fashion the air pressure caused direct rotation of the outer cylinder which was coupled to the single propeller.

The weapon was designed to be fired from an underwater tube and a constant depth was aimed at by means of a hydrostatic valve acting directly on the elevator controls. Azimuth control was simply by means of trim tabs set by trial and error over a 400 yards range at Fiume. The weapon achieved about six and a half knots to 200 yards and a further 100 yards at lower speed. The propeller speed on this first weapon was about 100 r.p.m.

The depth keeping on this first weapon was very erratic. Within two years two new weapons had been produced which incorporated a device to be known for decades afterwards as "The Secret." This consisted of a hydrostat-pendulum combination after the fashion of Fig. 3. The simple hydrostat controlled depth according to the law

d2D/dx2 is proportional to D0-D

where D0 is the set depth and x is the distance run. Such a control law has no inherent damping and as a result the original weapon oscillated wildly. The introduction of the pendulum by means of the lever system illustrated introduced an additional term in the above equation proportional to pitch angle which is very nearly proportional to depth rate. Thus a damping term has been introduced. The depth errors were found to reduce from +/-40 ft to as little as +/-6 in. Such was the success of Whitehead's "Secret" that it remained in use virtually unchanged until the end of World War II, a remarkable tribute to a great Victorian engineer....

Besides Captain Giovanni di Luppis and engineer Robert Whitehead there was also honourary Rear-Admiral in the K.u.K Kriegsmarine Herr Rihard Pogatschnigg (1838-1895), who had done a lot of technical work in the development of the torpedistic. I guess it is nedless to say here that Whitehead Torpedo Factory in Fiume was considered the best torpedo manufacturer until the end of World War II, when the factory was closed down. I could find no Croatian scientists in the development of torpedo. Can you enlighten me which Croatian citizen exactly "invented" a torpedo according to your own sources?

Gratiam,

Octavianus




[/quote]

[KingTomislav]

Pavelic's father is from a village near Senj.
About Francetic's right place of birth and year i'll ask some people and then inform you. Maybe youre right. After all on pictures he looks hes about 30, 35 years.

[Sokol]

Before I get emotional, and begin flaming, I ask the moderators of this forum to cut this thread off. It is INCREDIBLY insulting to the Serbian members of this forum.

Let me "clear" something up for my Hrvatske prijatelje:

1) Nikola Tesla was and always will be a Serbian. Don't you EVER insinuate otherwise. You might have given the world the neck tie, the pen and the torpedo (the US was using torpedoes in the 1880's, so I doubt it), but a Serbian named Mr. Tesla gave it the knowledge of how to employ electricity for items such as the computer you used to type most of the nonsense you have posted.

2) Oluja only succeeded because a) the JNA ended its support of the Republika Srpska forces and b) the Croatian TDF was being armed and trained by the Americans. It is a common missconception that Croatia faced the Yugoslav Army, which is completely untrue - they faced the Territorial Defence Forces of the Republika Srpska. And, my Croatian friend, don't teach me otherwise, because my uncle and father were both in the Uzice Corps, closest to the Bosnian border, most ready to attack through Bosnia, and they never participated in any fighting. Not even border skirmishing. Therefore that idiotic statement that the Croatians took on the 4th largest army in Europe (the Serbian JNA) is utterly untrue.

3) While you're talking about Serbian atrocities, shall we cite some Croatian ones? How about the 700,000 Serbians, Jews and Roma killed in Jasenovac? I'm truly about to get a *little* emotional. It is utterly dissallowed to deny the Holocaust, but Croatian denials of wiping out a 1/6th of the Serbian population were never disputed. How bloody well typical.

4) While we're on the point of 1990-1995, why don't you tell our unknowing friends (from the West) about how Republika Srpska with a 1/3rd of the population of the Muslim-Croat confederation faced them both and won consistently for 3 years (with only air support from the JNA), before the Americans started bombing their former allies (the Serbs), helping their former enemies (the Croats) and helping in the ethnic cleansing of 500,000 Serbs from Krajina.

5) You Croatian champions you! You managed to save Western civilization from the Turks did you? How about Kosovo, which set back the Ottoman Empire 20 years, 20 years which Europe used to prepare for the invasion? How about the fact that we assassinated the Sultan who would have stormed Vienna in the 1370's had we not intervened?

6) Thankfully, I fully understand that you represent a minor portion of the Croatian population. I have Croatian friends and *surprise* a Croatian relative. They are nothing like you. Thousands more Croatians fought in the Partizan armies than did in the Ustashe. Oh, my friends from the West FYI, Josip Broz Tito (the man who established Communist Yugoslavia and wiped out any survivors of the Ustashe) was a Croatian/Slovene.

7) Back to my Croatian friends: Don't sling **** where you know you shouldn't. If you want to go ahead and proclaim yourselves German (you patriotic Nazis you), it is your solemn right. The Slavic race will not mind in the least, as you are a minor and completely irrelevant portion of it. If you hate us so damned much, start calling yourself Kroatia, ein Deutsche Bund and stop speaking OUR DAMNED LANGUAGE! Did you know there are more Croatian skinheads than there are German ones? Quite true.

Hang your heads in shame. You aren't great warriors, you aren't great thinkers and whether you want to believe it or not, you're not descendants of some obscure Germanic race.

[Napoli]

Like I thought before, the proper Yugo army never made contact with the Croat army after the first main year. They were only a minority army they fought against and that was common knowledge until some in here thought they'd change history.
Sokol, you were right to give your side of the story.

[Wolffen]

Well that same as saying that Wermacht ended support to Waffen SS
Well there were regulars centinks eves Serbian Special Forces. And I have seen evidence after oluja there was big parties all over Croatia and troops and rolling into Town and gathering at main Squares to party, I sow a guy that returned for the front lines with a bag full of Serb special forces uniform covered in blood he took them so lata he can sell it as militaria and as a souvenir other guys on tanks and trucks had with them Serb helmets different uniforms and different militaria.

Americans trained us well don’t know about that. But one thing I can say is that it well knows that Britain and France historically did not like Croatians and loved Serbs. 1St Serb royal family is relatives with British royal family so Britain always supports Serbs. France too because diplomatic relations and because they were always allied against Germans. One question who is responsible for WW1? Serbs are! England and France entered WW1 to protect the Serbs now that tell you how much they mean to them. Croatians were always allied with Germany! Bleiburk war crime happened because British gave Croatian soldiers that surrender to them to Serbs to be slaughtered. Geneva? I know what you will say well After Kosovo The west attacked Serbia thus did not support them. The west had to do it because it was becoming embarrassing for them. When Slovenia happened west did not attack Serbia, Croatia nothing Bosnia did not react gave Serbs open hands to kill! Classic example is Sebrenica UN give city to Serbs, Serbs kill all the people in it! Talk about peace keeping . So the west had to finally act because it had gone too far!

Yea, yea 700 000 Serbs killed that total bs! Were those 700 000 bodies? If killed it was done on a spot not waste time in putting them in a camp! Jasenovac had to happen because Hitler orders it; it was primarily for Jews not Serbs! And if 1/6 was wiped out the Serb population pyramid would not recover that fast in 50 years and it is like in most of Balkan nations upside-down pyramid meaning that there are older people then younger! So how come there are so may old people if 1/6 them were wiped out

What about Bleiburg???? That like did not happened right!

Well Croatians forces faced the Jna well before the Oluja. Couple of Serbian Armijas (divisions) could not take Vukovar for 3 months defended by guys with hunting rifles and Molotov’s. Talk about Serb superiority? And 3rd or 7th not sure on number Serb Armija could not take Dubrovnik. Well I again know what you will say but they took most of Croatia well yes because the Jna was stationed in Croatia they had garrisons in every major city and local Serbs turned into cetniks. That happened fast so they were able to grab lot of territory relay fast once Croatian army organized its self they could not move advance they tried but did not work! Till Oluaja when they were kicked out

4) Were do you come up with this numbers????? Sokole??? What you multiply the actual number by 100 ? If this was all true there would not be any Serbs left! lol

5) Well my Serb Friend Kosovo and Serbia are not in the West! The historic division between East and west is the river Dunav. Everything west of Dunav is considered west everything east is east thus Kosovo and Serbia are east!

6) I am LOL! Yea Broz is Croatian and One of our Great historic figure! I have only respect for him! He saved Croatia and Balkans form Serbia and Serbian dream of Great Serbia (Serbia stretching over hall Balkans well you can’t blame them for dreaming )

7) Wow man you should work for Disney you have great imagination! What you talking about? Croatian doesn’t like any ruler’s rulers over it you should of figured that out by now. Croatians don’t want to be Germans (no offense)! We do not peak your language? It may be similar but not the same!
Don’t know about the skinheads not my thing but just did a bit of net surfing and could not find any Croatian skin sites so cant comment on that but found several Serb Skinhead sites??? Even skingirl, Serb skin bands (quite popular it seams) sites? Wazz up with that? Though you guys were Communist? Guess you want to become Germans? Serbo-Germania it has a ring to it LOL . Guess after Milosevic left you guys got confused ?

We are not great ? And Serbs are???? lol

For torpedo was developed in Rijeka in a factory named Torpedo That still exists today. It was first used in 1860s in Austro-Hungarian Italien war. In a battle of Vis!

Don’t forget the Parachute too: D

Napoli here the other side
Ps: I know you want listen to me because of my Italian army jokes sorry for that but you go to admit they were not all that. True they had there shining moments too and did help allot out the Third Reich! They were the third or could be agued even second mayor axis!

[Sokol]

*sigh* Oh Great eagle of the Croats, let me clarify for you what should be all too clear:

1) Serbian Special Forces killed in large numbers? In your dreams and only in your dreams. The Red Berets wiped the floor with anything Hrvatska could send against them. I know this because my friend's father (Tomislav Popovic) was in one of the few Red Beret teams sent into the war zone. They never sustained more than 5% causalties and this is at company level. However, what they did to your infantry units, that's another story for a forum with a less strict policy on such matters.

2) Srebrnica was taken from 400 lightly armed Dutch soldiers who had no choice but to give it up. They weren't ready to die for the UN. The actions of some in Srebrnica were atrocious, but at least I have the balls to admit they were wrong. Showing severed Chetnik heads makes you a true hero of the Croatian people, truly.

3) You deny Jasenovac? Of course you would. I'm not going to try to reteach an obviously indoctrinated idiot. 700,000 it was. Prove otherwise fool. Every document I have read puts the number at 700,000.

4) The JNA fought a fighting retreat with no logistical support against armed bandits and desserters you call 'soldiers'. They retreated into Serbia and did not venture back into Bosnia, as agreed with the Americans. Vukovar was overblown by the Croatian media as a major offensive. It so happens that it was a minor counter-insurgency operation. And we still liquidated more of you than you did of us. I'm sorry to stoop so low, but it is quite true. Americans trained you well? Good. Our TDF had no training apart from what they received in six weeks of basic. And our civillian army still smashed its way through your territory for four whole years.

5) When I was reffering to Krajina, I never mentioned numbers of killed did I? I said 'ethnically cleansed' you illiterate. That does not mean killed. They were cast out by 'victorious' Croatian armies.

6) I was reffering to our Western friends (as in English and Americans) you dolt.

7) I'm glad you're proud of Tito. Good for you.

8) Yes, of course, it was Serbians who allied with Germany officially in WW2 and it was Serbians who sent entire regiments to fight against the Red Army and it was Serbians who killed gypsies and Jews and it was Serbians who created the Devil and it was Serbians that made the world go wrong. How could I have forgotten? Do you make this stuff up as a hobby? And, naturally, it was Serbians who claim that they were the greatest allied asset of the Axis in WW2! BTW It's called Serbo-Croatian for a reason. I have never missunderstood a word of your version of Serbian. Do not bs yourself into thinking they're two languages. It's like Americans claiming their language is American, not English.

9) Frankly, I wouldn't give a damn if you had invented the very sky. You were always ineffective warriors, you were always ineffective parts of the Greater Slav population and you were always considered third tier. Without American assistance (to your side that is) it would take the JNA three weeks to remove you from the face of the earth. Dispute that how you will, we both know its the truth. What could you do to stop us? What could any nation in the Balkans do to stop a Greater Serbia? NATO stops it. There you go. Your big brothers look after you from above, as always. Tell me, champion of your people, what has your short-lived nation done to give glory to its name? I can name great Serbian deeds all day. But what's the point? All that matter is: Croatia is NOTHING and always will be NOTHING. You have never defeated us in battle, and I bet it makes your soul burn at its core. Maybe I was wrong when I said you want to be German. I bet you want to be Serbian instead.

PS Your points about our past friendship with the West are true. The key word there is PAST. Their hate for us sprang up rather suddenly in 1990. Weeee..... Loyal Allies for you eh?


***

Now, moderators, before I start calling my Ustashe friend here names, can you close this thread?

[Sokol]

Oh and, my good friend, we recovered from the loss of 1/4th of our population lost in WWI within two decades. One in every two adult males was either killed, wounded or missing. What makes you think 1/6th would take forty years to replenish?

[Wolffen]

Calling higher power for help? Close down the thread? Can’t handle it? Why get so worked up and emotional you did not see me call you names did you? Come down it ok World the a bitch and I know the Truth hurts
1)

before the Americans started bombing their former allies (the Serbs), helping their former enemies (the Croats) and helping in the ethnic cleansing of 500,000 Serbs from Krajina.

When I was referring to Krajina, I never mentioned numbers of killed did I? I said 'ethnically cleansed' you illiterate. That does not mean killed. They were cast out by 'victorious' Croatian armies.

You just caught your self in your own lie! What is 500 000 ? A looks to me as a number

2) Keep on Dreaming! End to Great Serbia was Croat We could of went to Drina but west did not let us cos they like you to much we took 1/3
of Bosnia of Bosnia but had to give it back cos of west ! So don’t talk about thing you don’t know! Vukovar? Yea it was attacked by 1 Serb soldier right same thing typically Serb denying everything

Serbs celebrate there own defeats Kosovo Polje lol. That one of the saddest and funniest thing ever. Don’t have any victories to celebrate so why not defeat (They lost against Turks there)

Hey Yea the guy has about 10-15 red barets and bout 30 uniforms. I should take picks and post them here now that would get you pisst!

I am not denying Jasenovac it did happen and it tragedy! But most people in there were Jews. And 700 000 I don’t thinks so! You need to work on your math!

Sebrenica come on everyone know that was a deal made Serbs would not dare attack the un cos then the Nato would be forced to attack so that scared thing is a nonsense!

Come down it is not good for your health

[Marcus]

This thread has gone off topic.


Take your Croatia vs Serbia (or the other war around) somewhere else, because I don't want that kind of nonsense here.

/Marcus