Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

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Totenkamp
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Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 12 Apr 2016 22:06

Hello, I'll try to keep this as short and simple as I can.

Im currently interested in reenacting a Concentration Camp guard at Auschwitz. :milwink: But I currently have no guideline as to what the regular guard wore uniform-wise such as what year model tunic, insignia, or equiptment. I know they wore light brown piping, but I'm not sure if they were strictly on the shoulder boards or if they were on the collar as well.

I'd just like a guide on this and if you know anything more about the life and the uniform of a Guard that would be much appreciated.

Thanks
:milsmile:

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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Sejanus » 13 Apr 2016 03:11

Totenkamp wrote: Im currently interested in reenacting a Concentration Camp guard at Auschwitz. :milwink:
Why?

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Totenkamp
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 13 Apr 2016 06:40

It would be a different experience from the normal reenactment of the other SS divisions. :milsmile:
It's also a subject that is of great interest to me.

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von thoma
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by von thoma » 14 Apr 2016 07:41

Read the book " Uniforms of the SS " - SS-Totenkopfverbände 1933-1945- VOL 4, contains an extensive information of this SS units.

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" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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Totenkamp
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 14 Apr 2016 23:37

Thank you, I'll have to get this book, in the meantime if anyone else has any info they'd like to share then feel free to.

LSSAH1944
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by LSSAH1944 » 18 Apr 2016 03:41

Out of curiosity, why would you reenact that? There's nowhere you could actually do the impression, and quite frankly, its pointless.

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Totenkamp
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 22 Apr 2016 20:26

Not much is known about the totenkopfverbände, and I'd like to have a uniform and the knowledge to teach some history when asked about it. Alot of people think it was just the SS in general that ran the camps when in reality there was a whole division devoted to the camps. It might clear up some peoples oppinion and hatred of the militarized divisions of the SS that just fought for honor, country, and the Führer.

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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Fitzwilliam » 07 May 2016 09:56

Totenkamp wrote:Hello, I'll try to keep this as short and simple as I can.

Im currently interested in reenacting a Concentration Camp guard at Auschwitz. :milwink: But I currently have no guideline as to what the regular guard wore uniform-wise such as what year model tunic, insignia, or equiptment. I know they wore light brown piping, but I'm not sure if they were strictly on the shoulder boards or if they were on the collar as well.

I'd just like a guide on this and if you know anything more about the life and the uniform of a Guard that would be much appreciated.

Thanks
:milsmile:


Your impression would depend on whether it's early pre-war or after the start and later. According to Beaver, "[a] standard SS cut uniform, produced in the political earth-brown color, was introduced sometime in early 1935." There were changes in details to these early uniforms, namely involving shoulder boards and these uniforms were discontinued, according to Beaver, by 1939-40 which seems to "coincide[] with Himmler's decision to change the Waffen-SS over to army uniforms.". It was during 39-40 too that Himmler introduced Waffenfarbe for the SS and the Farbe for KZ shoulder boards was similar (light brown) to the earth-brown colour of the old uniforms. Himmler, or whoever was designing uniforms, etc., seemed to like to make references to predecessor uniforms in the new one: the light brown Waffenfarbe of the shoulder board for KZ personnel, the black cap band of certain field gray SS caps and the brown shirt worn by A-SS men referencing the brown shirt of the SA. The earth-brown uniform was supposed to differentiate camp guards from not only the SS-VT but also SS-TV units outside the camps and the earth-brown uniform was not supposed to be worn outside of the camps. In 1941 Himmler - to some controversy - incorporated the KZ system as part of the W-SS and as, "new guards arrived who were not formerly a part of the SS-TV, they brought with them the SS runes on their collars" and the Totenkopf insignia became scarce. If you look at photographs associated with Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1944, you'll see a mixture of runes and Totenkopfs on collar tabs.

Basically the later uniforms of KZ personnel are no different from combat personnel and, if they're wearing Totenkopf tabs; those tabs are indistinguishable from those worn by the Totenkopf Division, AFAIK. There are some early collar tabs associated with the KZ that have either a "K" or, a later variation, a "K" with a Totenkopf on them. These were worn by persons on the staff of the Kommandantur and, other than being early, I don't know what specific years they would have been worn or when the "K" tab was replaced by the later tab. In the book recommended above, you'll find some other insignia specific to the camps.

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 22 May 2016 22:10

Totenkamp wrote:It might clear up some peoples oppinion and hatred of the militarized divisions of the SS that just fought for honor, country, and the Führer.
At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.

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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 23 May 2016 03:13

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Totenkamp wrote:It might clear up some peoples oppinion and hatred of the militarized divisions of the SS that just fought for honor, country, and the Führer.
At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.
Hmm... As always, to each their own opinion and viewpoint. :milwink:

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 23 May 2016 06:55

Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.
Hmm... As always, to each their own opinion and viewpoint. :milwink:
Historical facts aren't a matter of opinion.

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Totenkamp
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 23 May 2016 13:39

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.
Hmm... As always, to each their own opinion and viewpoint. :milwink:
Historical facts aren't a matter of opinion.
Hmm..

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Totenkamp
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 23 May 2016 13:50

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.
Hmm... As always, to each their own opinion and viewpoint. :milwink:
Historical facts aren't a matter of opinion.
Facts are not, but often the way they are interpreted is.

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 23 May 2016 14:25

Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.
Hmm... As always, to each their own opinion and viewpoint. :milwink:
Historical facts aren't a matter of opinion.
Facts are not, but often the way they are interpreted is.
I'm curious now; which interpretation of the word 'honorable' includes murdering innocent civilians, killing prisoners of war, and sending people to concentration camps?

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Totenkamp
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Re: Totenkopfverbände Uniform Guide

Post by Totenkamp » 23 May 2016 15:48

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Totenkamp wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:At least when they weren't busy massacring civilians and prisoners of war, or helped round up innocent people to send them to concentration- and extermination camps.

For the Waffen-SS, honor extended only to the arbitrary limits of the insane racial theories of the Third Reich, and the love for their country was replaced by a love for a racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, fascist ideology.
Hmm... As always, to each their own opinion and viewpoint. :milwink:
Historical facts aren't a matter of opinion.
Facts are not, but often the way they are interpreted is.
I'm curious now; which interpretation of the word 'honorable' includes murdering innocent civilians, killing prisoners of war, and sending people to concentration camps?
It's my interpretation that for the SS, honor meant being devote to their fuhrer, and their fatherland no matter the order. Its my belief that of course by the western powers' standards there was no honor in them doing those things that you have stated. But to them, honor had an entire different meaning, it meant that the extermination of civilians, and POWs that were enemies of the Reich was a necessary action that needed to be taken in order to safeguard the future and absolute control of their government. Something you have to remember is that Germans of that time were under the constant indoctrination that they were cheated and lost an entire war because of the Judes. Therefore there would have been no honor, in allowing them and mostly soviet POWs (which the Nazis already hated the soviets, for good reason.) to have a peaceful existance after what they 'did to the german peoples' future'. That's like the belt buckle, "My honor is my loyalty" to be put simple it was interpreted by them that loyalty to the Reich, was the most honorable thing you could have.

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