Opinions Please

Discussions on all aspects of WW1, WW2 and Inter-War Era reenactment.
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ant
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Opinions Please

#1

Post by ant » 15 Apr 2004, 23:37

Hi everyone. If it's not too much, I would like some opinions on a situation I'm in. I'm going to receive a m36 tunic as a gift but the problem is where it's being ordered from doesn't have any m36 tunics in stock so they're going to put a green collar on a m40 tunic, the only difference is it wont be the early/pre war feldgrau. Do you think it would still be all right for most reenacting groups? I know in the end it will probably depend on the group I may join and how strict they are, but I also want some other opinions first. Thanks.

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#2

Post by craigob » 16 Apr 2004, 00:37

where is it coming from? as in whos making it


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Leibstandarte_reenactor
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#3

Post by Leibstandarte_reenactor » 16 Apr 2004, 01:17

1st i would not get a 36 unless you are going to re-enact early war or an officer. M40 is the best tunic IMHO. also as Panzerfaust said who is making it?

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ant
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#4

Post by ant » 16 Apr 2004, 03:13

I'll probably reenact early, although I hear there are not many early war groups, so that may be a problem but any it's coming from Lost Battalions.

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Mak Los Mien Schnitzel
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#5

Post by Mak Los Mien Schnitzel » 16 Apr 2004, 05:12

ant wrote:I'll probably reenact early, although I hear there are not many early war groups, so that may be a problem but any it's coming from Lost Battalions.
Myth myth myth...all myths. The Wehrmacht was a lot more flexible in uniforms than most reenactors realise:

Here's what the famous Lander site says about this:



http://members.shaw.ca/deutschesoldaten/feldbluse.htm

It should be noted that while garments released from the factory were usually fitted with whatever insignia was on hand, there was no "correct" pattern or type of insignia for any German field blouse (including the 1944 Field Uniform). Soldiers were permitted, on an individual basis, to apply older patterns of insignia to their newly issued uniform garments. Some soldiers even changed the collars on so called "M42" and "M43" field blouses to dark green, months and even years after all newly made blouses from the factory ceased having dark green collars. There were no standards for "uniformity' with regards to these details in the German Army, and most late-war photos show a motley array of dark-green and field grey shoulder straps, mixtures of national insignia breast eagles, and varieties of the three types of collar patches, both backed and unbacked.
I have ample photos too of green collar soldiers mixed in with so called m43s and 44s late in the war.

So I wouldn't sweat it ant, wear the green, its much smarter looking anyhow. If you really think about it, this is what Germany wanted all its soldiers to look like. Remeber, it is only through the prolonged war and shortages did the alterations to the uniforms come about!

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#6

Post by voorst » 16 Apr 2004, 08:59

IMHO: Landser is a great site, but too often considers exceptions like the rules.

I have pics with German soldiers with k98 and pistol, or many other strange and/or unusual things. What does it mean?
Absolutely nothing. Just exceptions.

U can find M36 tunic in 1945, of course, but u could have 1 pic every 1000. I consider that just an exception.

I think reenactors look more often to the "unusual" than the rule....maybe to justificate their mistakes\errors or to make themself different.
Gruß

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#7

Post by Leibstandarte_reenactor » 16 Apr 2004, 22:20

voorst wrote:IMHO: Landser is a great site, but too often considers exceptions like the rules.

I have pics with German soldiers with k98 and pistol, or many other strange and/or unusual things. What does it mean?
Absolutely nothing. Just exceptions.

U can find M36 tunic in 1945, of course, but u could have 1 pic every 1000. I consider that just an exception.

I think reenactors look more often to the "unusual" than the rule....maybe to justificate their mistakes\errors or to make themself different.
Gruß
i agree totally

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#8

Post by craigob » 17 Apr 2004, 00:59

Lost Battalions is a decent company - they will do a good job

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Mak Los Mien Schnitzel
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#9

Post by Mak Los Mien Schnitzel » 19 Apr 2004, 00:57

The old argument keeps coming up :D :D :D

Guess we will never agree...but one thing I have to stress is the green collar deal is no mistake, If I could get one I'd choose to wear it, its a beaut piece of kit. Also, of course it's 1 in a 1000 because, more than likely, by 1944 all the original soldiers would've been discharged or dead 8O

If we want realism for the closing stages of the war, most of them were a rag tag,dirty army with no supplies and very little but panzerfaust's and pride to fight with. :cry:

I guess that's why so many of them look relieved to have been captured by the Amis, it meant they at least got fed, a shower, and some clean clothes!! :lol:

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ant
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#10

Post by ant » 19 Apr 2004, 04:02

Thanks for your opinions everyone. Also thanks, Mak, for that info, I thought I read it somewhere but I wasn't for sure. And I dont really mind if it's a 1 in 1000 thing, if thats how it actually was then there has to be someone reenacting it, right? : :D

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#11

Post by Panzerrat » 22 Apr 2004, 19:59

1 in a 1000 MY ARSE!
It was more like 1 in 10, as a general rule where possible an older M36 or M40 Tunic was issued to a squad leader to give the new raw recruits the impression that the Squad leader was an old hand, more often than not he was just as Green as the troops he was leading....

Concider this......

the LACK or ABUNDANCE of PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence is neither here nor there, it can not & should not be used as a yard stick for 'Standardization'

Why? for starters LESS than 25% of all Photos taken by Kriegberichters survived in German archives (& we're talking MILLIONS lost)

Even more Personal Soldat photos would have been lost in the ruins of Germany.
It's neither here nor there.....

Put it this way there was a massive shit fight amongst US reenactors some years back about a particular SS infantry Regiment, there were plenty of photos of this Regiment which drew some attention because of the style of National Eagle they used on their M-43 feldmutze's & one unit portraying this Regiment wanted to use the same Repro insignia

Some loudly proclaimed that the Insignia should be ignored because it was 'unique' to this Regiment alone.......

Well pardon me for living BUT they all forgot one important piece of information........

NOT ONE SOLITARY PHOTO EXISTED OF THE SISTER REGIMENT OF THE SAME DIVISION NOR WERE THERE EVER LIKELY TO BE ANY VETERANS OF THE UNIT TO STEP FORWARD TO CLEAR UP THE DEBATE.......

When it comes to the German Army NEVER SAY NEVER

It is neither here nor there.........

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#12

Post by voorst » 23 Apr 2004, 14:33

Panzerrat wrote:1 in a 1000 MY ARSE!
It was more like 1 in 10, as a general rule where possible an older M36 or M40 Tunic was issued to a squad leader
Just bullshit in my opinion.
millions of pictures are proof of what i said. M36 was used very very very seldomly. M40 and M36/38 (not M37) were delivered to troops when M43/M44 uniforms were not available. But production of M40 model was far greater than M36 (100:1), so, even saying squad leaders had M40 or M36, every 100 squads of 10 men a squad leader had M36.

Actually 1 on 1000.

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#13

Post by Panzerrat » 23 Apr 2004, 18:25

voorst wrote:
Just bullshit in my opinion.
millions of pictures are proof of what i said. M36 was used very very very seldomly. M40 and M36/38 (not M37) were delivered to troops when M43/M44 uniforms were not available. But production of M40 model was far greater than M36 (100:1), so, even saying squad leaders had M40 or M36, every 100 squads of 10 men a squad leader had M36.

Actually 1 on 1000.
So your saying that out of 6 Million serving members of the Wehrmacht (& i include the LW,KM & SS) that only 6000 M-36,M-38 & M-40 Tunics were MADE & ISSUED?

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#14

Post by voorst » 23 Apr 2004, 19:50

No, 6000 would be the number of M36 users at the end of the war considering a 1:100 ratio M36:M40/M43/M44 total production. :D

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#15

Post by Panzerrat » 23 Apr 2004, 19:55

voorst wrote:No, 6000 would be the number of M36 users at the end of the war considering a 1:100 ratio M36:M40/M43/M44 total production. :D
So what happened to the estimated 300,000 M36 tunic produced?

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