The Munich Thread

[pavel michalek]

Anyone knows more on planned rebuilding of Munich?

In this photo is model of Munich Ost-West-Achse. It´s author was Hermann Giesler.

50046051.jpg (35.95 KiB) Viewed 1755 times

[Keir]

You can check out the book Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics by Frederic Spotts, Overlook Press ISBN: 1585673455

[Geoff Walden]

During the tour that took us down into those tunnels, they told us that the tunnels DID give access to the Ehrentempel. They said that was how the guards were changed. Now, I don't know how this worked - that is, I don't know exactly where this access came out at the Ehrentempel (they didn't tell us that ).
They also told us that the tunnel that ran to the Verwaltungsbau was collapsed some way along (bombing damage), but we didn't go far enough on the tour to see that.

I recently received a copy of the book Bürokratie un Kult (Munich, 1995), concerning the NSDAP Party buildings on the Königsplatz. According to this book, there was a Verbindungsgang (service tunnel) running between the Führerbau and Verwaltungsbau, several meters beneath the ground surface. There was also a parallel tunnel for heating pipes running beneath both buildings and on to the main heating system beneath the building just to the south of the Verwaltungsbau. The book says that the Verbindungsgang ("Gehkanal") is walled up today, somewhere between the buildings (it doesn't say anything about being collapsed by bombing).

There were access tunnels running from these main tunnels, to the rooms beneath each of the Ehrentempel. These rooms contained air filters and a ventilation system that controlled the temperature and humidity in the tunnels and adjacent buildings (sort of a primitive air conditioning system, without using a refrigerant under pressure). Today you can still see the tops of air shafts beside the Ehrentempel, that are part of this ventilation system.

There were also stairways from these rooms beneath the Ehrentempel, that led up to access holes beside the Ehrentempel that were covered with metal plates. The book does not explain the function or purpose of this sort of access, but it seems highly unlikely that these stairways were used in the changing of the guards.

Geoff

[ghostsoldier]

Thanks for the info, Geoff....good stuff.

Too bad there's no photo documentation...I would love to see that!

Rob

[Schultze]

[quote="Annelie"]Yes, I realized perhaps that was the case but I was hoping that he bought the chair or furniture.


Always wondered where the furniture of the Berghof ended up or for that matter the furniture of his München
apartment?[/quote]

The house on Prinzregenten Str.is now the Bogenhausen police station. They retain an original cabinet which they use for showing off bowling trophies

[Keir]

One of my students lives directly across from Hitler's former residence and visited the police there recently to report his bike stolen.

[Keir]

After teaching my Grade 9 class today, a student came to me to say that her piano teacher's grandfather is (was) Hans Frank.

[Keir]

Michaela Melián- Memory Loops
300 Audio Tracks on Sites of NS Terror in Munich 1933–1945

I strongly recommend anyone to check out http://www.memoryloops.net, "a virtual memorial for the victims of National Socialism" made up of 300 German and 175 English audio tracks that link to specific sites referred to on this thread. There is a remarkable project under the aegis of the Municipal Department of Arts and Culture of the City of Munich which fuses art and history, specifically the sites this thread has dealt with.
It's called Memory Loops, created by Michaela Melián, an artist and musician, who lives in Munich and Hamburg where she is a professor at the Hochschule für bildende Künste. The project itself

is an audio artwork largely based on the transcription of historical and recent material from victims of National Socialism and contemporary witnesses: witnesses of the discrimination, persecution and exclusion to which people in Munich were subjected under the NS regime. The reports and interviews have been transcribed and recorded by actors and actresses, with children reading the historical documents.
All the voices have been embedded within the constant flow of an original musical score which links the individual text sequences. Melián used for the composition fragments of historical recordings of works by Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy, Kurt Weill and Coco Schumann and arranged them into one delicate, atmospheric sound.
http://www.memoryloops.net

[Schultze]

Regarding the building of the Documentation Centre -

word on the street here is some of the various tunnels under the F-Bau will be incorporated into the design and be accessible.

I for one look forward to the building of this new centre, I just hope that it is objective.

[Annelie]

Thanks Kier for the Memory loops. Quite interesting.
Good idea.

[Keir]

Thanks Annelie.
Schultze- Can I ask what you would expect from an "objective" approach? I only ask because I've been quite impressed with the centres I've seen here in Germany, particularly that in Nuremberg. Am I missing a different way of seeing how things are presented?

[Schultze]

Well,as a tour guide,I find that Munich and many of the Munichers I have met in relation to this history sometimes get a bit hysterical when it comes to dealing with it e.g. random members of the public shouting down tour guides - "Stop telling your lies" etc, the near total absence of info-plaques on buildings or locations (eg Viscardigasse or Geschwister Scholl Platz...sure they are memorials but they are subtle and people have no idea they are they unless they actually know. There are some such as the big one on Konigsplatz and the the site of the former Gestapo building but not many......memorials are plenty,explanations are few)...the way the Dachau Memorial insist that you concentrate on the prisoners and the site of KZ Dachau...wider context, eg motivations of the guards,other camps, comparisons with other contemporary dictatorships are not to be touched upon, less the regime and all it stood for be interpreted in a way that displeases the powers that be. Presumably the powers that be did not want every tom dick and harry to know what happened in the old town hall....a toy museum is about as far removed from the realities and aftermath of Reichspogramnacht (Not allowed to use Kristallnacht...tis very un-PC apparently). Before I get shouted down, there is a memorial inside one of the tunnels underneath but it is somewhat dwarfed by the memorial for the German POW forced labourers in the Soviet Union on the same wall....mixed messages at best.

When I am working, I have to warn the crowd that I will show them some artefacts that some may find offensive - I am talking about items like Arbeitsbucher, period fashion magazines, Feldpost and money.I have to warn them to cover myself legally in case they get upset at the little swastikas on Reichmarks - I have to give them the opportunity to NOT see these things, get offended or get into a big antidemocratic right-wing anti-Semitic rage. I don't see the Stadtmuseum doing the same when you visit the NS exhibition. Didn't see that happen in the N'berg documentation centre. Obviously, education on this matter is fine when the state does it but is suspect when a freelance professional does it. (BTW, by "Professional" I merely mean someone with a degree in the relevant history, rather than having my head buried somewhere unpleasant)

In short - "we" would rather not talk about it (c.f. the problems associated with making the former KZ a memorial,or more recently the opposition to creating an international youth hostel (Not "Youth Hostel"as in the association) specifically for young people visiting the site, or the pulling up of the swastika floor in the Hofbrauhaus etc) but if we are to talk about it, "we" will do the talking.In fact we will do the telling -it is not open to discussion or question. Anybody who does that is obviously suspect and will have a probable political agenda. Oh dear, I have just messed myself. Someone call the cops.

Having said all that, the local council do/did produce a useful little guide in English (as well as in Deutsch of course)

I like living here, I just wish that this period could be dealt with in the same way as say the Black Death or Wilhelm V. Neither were particularly pleasant and caused pain, suffering and death on a huge scale. History is all too often unpleasant, wherever and whenever you look - 1000 years ago,500 years ago, 72 years ago or yesterday.This morning even.

[Keir]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I have to say I found it strange to cycle home past war memorials on Remembrance Day to find people celebrating a totally different event. I'm interested in the "un PC" term Kristallnacht; I've NEVER heard it refererd any other way unless with the addition of "Reichs" in front.

[grassi]

Anyone knows more on planned rebuilding of Munich?

Get a copy of this book: München - "Hauptstadt der Bewegung", München 1993.
It is the catalogue for the exhibition "München - 'Hauptstadt der Bewegung'" in the Stadtmuseum München, Oct. 22nd 1993-March 27th 1994.
It contains some interesting articles like this one:
Rasp, Hans-Peter, Bauten und Bauplanung für die "Hauptstadt der Bewegung", in: München - "Hauptstadt der Bewegung", München 1993, p. 294-299.

I have to say I found it strange to cycle home past war memorials on Remembrance Day to find people celebrating a totally different event.

Well, Remembrance Day on Nov. 11th is not a German Holiday etc.
Why should it be celebrated?
According to Wikipedia (and personal experiences) the carnival season starts on November 11th at 11:11 am.
In addition to that St. Martin is celebrated on November 11th with hand laterns for children and processions.
Both traditions are connected to a catholic background.

Go to the war memorials on Volkstrauertag.
In my community there will be a "Feier am Kriegerdenkmal" with choir and a wreath ceremony after the ecomenical service in the nearby church.


This is an example just for the city of Würzburg for November 13th and 14th:
http://www.wuerzburg.de/de/aktuelles/30 ... ertag.html

Best regards

grassi

[Keir]

I knew I should have chosen my words more carefully, but I had thought that November 11 is a date that holds significant significance for Germans and, whilst not an holiday to be "celebrated", should at least be commemorated. But then I suppose the war (and blockade) wouldn't have formally ended until the signing of the Versailles treaty, and even then the occupation and Franco-Belgian invasions and even civil unrest (such as found in Munich) don't suggest a clear break as the date does for others.