Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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Annelie
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Annelie » 30 Apr 2016 20:05

Totally agree Geoff.

Its a wonder the management team of Auschwitz doesn't complain.
Certainly seem to be in bad taste.

history1
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby history1 » 01 May 2016 20:02

Annelie wrote:[...]
Its a wonder the management team of Auschwitz doesn't complain.
Certainly seem to be in bad taste.

They would only complain if there is an info that Poles did take an active part in the persecution of Jews. That´s what the Auschwitz Museum & Memorial, the extended arm of the Polish government, cares for. As long as it´s "Birkenau - GERMAN concentration camp" on those magnets they likely don´t see a reason to complain.

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Mauser K98k
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Mauser K98k » 24 May 2016 21:00

wm wrote:The crematoria weren't visible from the town, it was about 3-4 km - there were on the other side of the camp.
Generally people knew what was going on although the source of stink wasn't the rather efficient and modern crematoria but the open pits.


I presume the prevailing winds there are westerly, which would have often carried the stench directly to Oswiecim.

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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Paulheald » 17 Dec 2016 18:13

Re the 'fridge magnets in poor taste: I am beginning to wonder how long it will be before T-shirts appear with some sort of tasteless inscription thereon relating to Auschwitz/Birkenau? Hopefully that sort of thing might be illegal, but there seems to be no limits to bad taste these days!

SteveFBS
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby SteveFBS » 17 Dec 2016 20:27

Paulheald wrote:Re the 'fridge magnets in poor taste: I am beginning to wonder how long it will be before T-shirts appear with some sort of tasteless inscription thereon relating to Auschwitz/Birkenau? Hopefully that sort of thing might be illegal, but there seems to be no limits to bad taste these days!

Something along the lines of, "My parents went to Auschwitz, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"?

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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Swede71 » 04 Dec 2017 19:59

palitzch.jpg


Hello,
Very interesting information here to read.

When I read "The secret lifes of SS" I was curious about what existing building today was used by leaders of the SS. I used google street view to try to locate some, but I only found Gerhard Palitzsch house (as seen on picture). The photo on Palitzsch and his family and dog must have been taken at the corner of the yellow house where a stair leads up to the bulding (but i guess you already knew that).

Does anyone else know about another still existing building that was used by a former SS?

Pardon my english.

Thanks!
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GregSingh
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby GregSingh » 04 Dec 2017 23:11

Does anyone else know about another still existing building that was used by a former SS?


:welcome:

The list is long, somewhere between 50-100 houses. I think I provided earlier in this topic a link to a publication where most of houses are listed.
If you know a surname I can try to match the address.

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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Swede71 » 05 Dec 2017 09:04

I would love to read that publication if you remember that link. I have been to Oswiecim many many times, but the last 2-3 times i´ve been there I´ve become more and more interested about the area "outside the wire. I also have contact with a couple of guides that I got to know a little bit better, and they provide med with answers, but even they don´t know the answer to all my questions.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Geoff Walden » 05 Dec 2017 23:29

Just a couple examples ... as Greg said, there are many more remaining.

Palitzsch Haus on the left ... Josef Kramer lived just down the street (center). Arthur Liebehenschel lived nearby (right).
Hans Citroen's excellent book Oswiecim-Auschwitz/Auschwitz-Oswiecim (2011) has a map that shows these and other house locations.
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby GregSingh » 06 Dec 2017 00:03

Several addresses from my spreadsheet, which was based on 11 yo Polish publication.
We have surnames of SS personnel and current address of the building.

Schulz, Walter, K.Zerlik, F.Krupatz, A.Graf (Skośna 5)
Boger, Pfütze (Skośna 7)
Jainter (Skośna 9)
Hering, W.Bressen (Skośna 11)

J.Irmler, H.Kirschner, Müller (Ostatni Etap 4)

Heider (Jaracza 1)
Schippmann (Jaracza 6)
Hollstein, Hinz (Jaracza 16)

J.Kramer (Obozowa 22)
G.Palitzsch, Josten (Obozowa 26)

H.Tatute, W.Güssgen, W.Borger, Kraus, Westphal, Blank (Więźniów Oświęcimia 14)
Wiegleb, V.Pflugbeil, G.Krause, Stenzel, Münkel (Więźniów Oświęcimia 16)

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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Swede71 » 06 Dec 2017 17:28

Thanks
I think I need to buy that book. I have hestitated to buy it after his theories concerning alternate "alte juderampe". I'm not so sure he´s right about that, even though his theories are interesting.

When it comes to Palitzsch I was told that just on the opposite side of the road from where he was living a "palitzschgrube" was located, just like the one next to the sign "Arbeit macht frei" at Auschwitz 1. But I havent been able to locate any traces of it today, such as differences in mark level.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Geoff Walden » 06 Dec 2017 22:41

Hi Swede71,
I think you will enjoy that book ... hope you can find a copy for sale ... I had to shop around quite awhile (I was wanting the edition in English, which may have made a difference). For me, Hans Citroen presents a very compelling and convincing argument that the original Judenrampe was not where the memorial is located today, but between there and the modern tracks of what was "Bahnhof West," especially after I walked around all back in there (in the winter, when the goldenrod and other high weeds were gone). Plus, his writing style struck me as quite enjoyable.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Swede71 » 07 Dec 2017 13:36

GregSingh wrote:Several addresses from my spreadsheet, which was based on 11 yo Polish publication.
We have surnames of SS personnel and current address of the building.

Schulz, Walter, K.Zerlik, F.Krupatz, A.Graf (Skośna 5)
Boger, Pfütze (Skośna 7)
Jainter (Skośna 9)
Hering, W.Bressen (Skośna 11)

J.Irmler, H.Kirschner, Müller (Ostatni Etap 4)

Heider (Jaracza 1)
Schippmann (Jaracza 6)
Hollstein, Hinz (Jaracza 16)

J.Kramer (Obozowa 22)
G.Palitzsch, Josten (Obozowa 26)

H.Tatute, W.Güssgen, W.Borger, Kraus, Westphal, Blank (Więźniów Oświęcimia 14)
Wiegleb, V.Pflugbeil, G.Krause, Stenzel, Münkel (Więźniów Oświęcimia 16)

Thanks.
It gives you another perspective (I think) when you know where they lived. You know what they must have seen, what kind of relation they must have had, where they put their children in kindergarten, what they did on their sparetime and so on! And off course I´m interested in even more locations, for instance where, O. Moll, Auermeir, Mengelse, Mussfeldt, M. Mandl, Grabner, I. Grease and Hössler lived.

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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby history1 » 07 Dec 2017 22:10

Irma Grese, not Grease.
Josef Mengele, not Mengelse.
Hans Aumeier, not Auermeir
and Maximillian Grabner.

Geoff, do you know if the current situation of the houses is the one of the time or are they rebuilt?

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Postby Geoff Walden » 07 Dec 2017 23:25

Roman, it looks to me that although the Palitzsch and Kramer houses have been remodeled on the outside, the overall configuration, window locations, etc., looks like they are the original structures, based on older photos. Not really old photos - the photos I'm looking at are in Hans Citroen's book, from 2007-2008, that show the Palitzsch and Kramer houses before they were remodeled. They look like old construction ... the Palitzsch Haus still has those shingles on the walls that we see in Swede71s period image (or are those bricks?). The Kramer Haus has an old gray finish, like a lot of other old buildings around there. Maybe all they did was repaint the outside of that house.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
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