Berghof Obersalzberg

[G.K.]

Bilder

[Geoff Walden]

The sets of these aerial photos that were taken in April-May 1945 (Sorties 7-147D and 7LOC-11D) are in the U.S. National Archives in College Park, MD. They are certainly fascinating to study, in hi-res. You can even see things like the 3.7cm Flak gun emplacements at the Antenberg camp, just for an example (not to mention several more Moll Bunkers and tunnel entrances). The first set of these were shot from about 8500 feet, looking straight down. This set (7-147D) is dated 24 April 1945 in the records, but they were shot after the April 25th bombing, but before the retreating SS set the Berghof on fire on 4 May (maybe 24 April was the original date that the sortie was ordered).

The second sortie listed here has the low-level (P47) shots that show some of the most interesting scenes from a birds-eye view (these shots are dated 11 May 45). There are several features that show up in these photos that have defied identification, because these items and construction projects are not found in the surviving records, to say what they were. Some of these items are still there as ruins today, others not there anymore, some appear to be buried today.

There were other aerial reconnaissance photos take before the bombing, in March or April 1945, and then there is G.K.'s photo that is dated 1 June, and may be part of another sortie. Some of the pre-bombing photos are also at the US NARA, but I did not see this June photo when I was there. Unfortunately, like the US Army Signal Corps collection in the NARA, over the years some photos have disappeared. Whether they were simply refiled in the wrong place, or stolen, is hard to say today.

[WW2 Historian]

what was the radius for the bombing of Obersalzberg? How far around the Berghof site can craters be found? Was Berchtesgaden actually bombed? Was the Obersalzberg the only target in the area?

[Br. James]

Great pix -- many thanks, G.K. and Geoff!!

Br. James

[Geoff Walden]

what was the radius for the bombing of Obersalzberg? How far around the Berghof site can craters be found? Was Berchtesgaden actually bombed? Was the Obersalzberg the only target in the area?

The 25 April 1945 bombing was accurate in that it hit the targets specified (except the Kehlsteinhaus, if they did actually try to hit this), but in common with most WW2 bombing missions, there were bombs that fell way wide of the mark. For example, only the central OSB was actually targeted (Berghof, SS Kaserne, Platterhof, etc.), but a lot of bombs fell to the east on the housing areas at Klaushӧhe and Buchenhӧhe, and the workers camp at Lager Riemerfeld in between, and also to the west, on the Antenberg workers camp (these could also have been considered legitimate targets, I suppose). But there were bombs that fell on farm areas considerably to the east of the OSB, around Resten and Lack (almost 2000 meters east of the main target area), and also to the north (some bombs hit almost 1500 meters north of the Berghof, near the Berchtesgadener Ache river).

I would guess, roughly, that most bombs fell within a radius of around 1000-1200 meters of the center of the impact area, but the Berghof wouldn’t be in the center. The center would be to the northeast of the Berghof. A lot of bombs fell in wooded and meadow areas north and east of the OSB. (All of this analysis is based on the post-bombing aerial photos.)

Although the town of Berchtesgaden itself was not a target on 25 April 1945, inhabitants reported that bombs did fall in the town and did kill civilians. The city of Bad Reichenhall WAS a target on 25 April 1945, with a total of 306 dead. The Freilassing train station was also targeted on the same day. (source – Bernhard Frank, “Secret Kehlstein,” 1995)

Bomb craters can still be found in the wooded areas all around the central OSB, not just around the Berghof. Even big pieces of bomb casings can still be found out in the woods. A good display of both craters and bomb pieces can be seen at the Adler und Murmeltiergehege, that sanctuary for birds of prey and alpine marmots that can be found in the woods near the Gӧring Adjutancy building (I hope so, anyway – I haven’t been in the sanctuary in maybe 15 years, but I doubt it has changed).

Here is a big piece of bomb casing that someone in Berchtesgaden found and mounted on the wall of a building.

[Geoff Walden]

For you Obersalzberg collectors ... This would look nice, framed and hanging on a wall.

Piece of Obersalzberg camouflage netting on ebay -- Don't know how much this will go for, but it's a very nice piece. I haven't seen a piece in that nice a shape around there in 10+ years.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Tarnnetz-kleine ... Sw2cNajxnk

[Annelie]

Is it for real?

How can be tell?

[Geoff Walden]

Never heard of anyone faking this stuff ... I guess it could be done, but it would be awful difficult.
Looks just like a big piece I found on the OSB ca. 2005. I have yet to frame my piece ... I need to get it on a wall.

[Annelie]

Here is what I did with my Obersalzberg piece.
Wasn't sure how to frame it since it has depth and I did not want it squashed :-)I

I look at it every day and wonder about that period.

[Geoff Walden]

Looks great! That's what has kept mine from being framed yet ... I'm still looking for the right 3D open frame so the piece of netting can retain its depth. I need some more wall space too. :roll:

[British Sapper]

Strange that then Berchtesgaden not being a bombers target but Bad Reichenall was ?

[*NL*]

Annelie, Geoff, why not put the netting in a glass dome. The netting will stay intact and it saves you dusting the thing.
Just a thought

[Geoff Walden]

Strange that then Berchtesgaden not being a bombers target but Bad Reichenall was ?

Bad Reichenhall was a road and rail hub, as was Freilassing (bombed the same day). Berchtesgaden was just the "end of the line," unimportant to the transportation network.

[British Sapper]

Strange that then Berchtesgaden not being a bombers target but Bad Reichenall was ?

Bad Reichenhall was a road and rail hub, as was Freilassing (bombed the same day). Berchtesgaden was just the "end of the line," unimportant to the transportation network.

Ah right Geoff. I have been to Bad Reichenhall but don't recall any rail lines. I thought it might have been what troops were based there. I have been based at Strub kaserne in the past, and the German mountain troops are/were very efficient soldiers indeed.

[Geoff Walden]

Earlier in this thread (page 330), Pavel and I were discussing the OSB tunnel maps, in particular the tunnel that the post-war US Army maps show starting at a point between the greenhouse and Bormann's house, and running to the Hintereck parking area (the post-war maps show the Café Hintereck in this location, although that was a post-1945 building). I am going to call this "Tunnel A" to cut down on confusion later on. I have questioned the existence of such a tunnel, but I do have to say that a tunnel there certainly does show up on a lot of different maps. (I also have to point out that there are certainly other errors on these maps, so they can't be taken as gospel.)

my collection

First, how about that short tunnel that is there today, that starts sort of in the same area (down below the greenhouse). No-one knows now where that tunnel ended up because the end of it as it passes beneath the greenhouse is blocked up with rubble and fill dirt. Florian Beierl has told me that can't be "Tunnel A," because the elevation would be all wrong.

So if “Tunnel A” was not this tunnel, and it really was there, what was it for? It seems to go from nowhere to nowhere ... Why would there be a tunnel entrance/exit at the Hintereck road intersection area? Sure, there were guard/gate personnel there, but they could have run into the air raid rooms beneath the adjacent Drivers house. Maybe for the greenhouse personnel? They could have run to the Drivers house as well. It would be a little farther, but not that far. I just can’t think of a good reason to put a tunnel there.

But there is a period German map shown in Florian's book that really seems to be very accurate, and "Tunnel A" is on there, labeled Verbindungsstollen I (connecting tunnel – underlined in yellow here). That's it - nothing at either end except what looks like entrances. There are several other interesting details on this map, such as the SS Tunnel system, which is almost never shown on other maps. Also the tunnel from the back of the Türken into the main tunnel, and this is labeled "Eing."[ang] (entrance), implying that there WAS an entrance here from the Türken, before the spiral staircase was installed in the 1950s.

Florian Beierl, "Hitlers Berg"

Then we have the maps with the 1945 CIOS reports, which were German maps that had been captured on the OSB or in Berchtesgaden by the Americans, and somewhat annotated in English. The large scale CIOS map is printed so poorly that it is very hard to make out in places, but it certainly shows a tunnel entrance between the greenhouse and Bormann's house, like "Tunnel A." Where this tunnel leads to is not clear ... it seems to go under the greenhouse and then stop somewhere around the ventilation/observation tower that used to be up above the greenhouse. It doesn't seem to continue to the Hintereck area, but again, this map is hard to read. I don't know whether this map meant to show "Tunnel A," or the little tunnel that is there today.

FWIW, this large CIOS map also seems to show an entrance tunnel from the Türken leading back to the main tunnel going toward the Berghof.

There is another map in the CIOS report, sort of a sketch map, that does not show any trace of "Tunnel A." It does appear to show two tunnel entrances at the Türken.

CIOS/JIOA, Sept. 1945, "German Underground Installations," Part 3 of 3

Concerning the debated entrance from the Türken into the connecting tunnel that ran between Bormann's house and the Berghof, the CIOS report has a quite detailed map of the Berghof tunnel, that shows an entrance from the Türken, right before the stairs going down to the main level of the Berghof tunnel (traces of this entrance used to be visible on the wall there). This CIOS map also has a sketch map of the Berghof tunnel system, and this map also clearly shows two entrances from the Türken to the main tunnel - one the main access where it is today, and another access coming from what is today the garage (labeled Vermittlung on this plan - the telephone exchange. So ... All modern references and guides say that there was NO direct access from the Türken to the main tunnel system until the hotel owner had the spiral staircase installed in the 1950s, BUT, several 1945 period maps show direct access from the Türken. hmmm ...

CIOS/JIOA, Sept. 1945, "German Underground Installations," Part 3 of 3

osbcios4at.jpg (61.6 KiB) Viewed 4341 times

CIOS/JIOA, Sept. 1945, "German Underground Installations," Part 3 of 3

Sorry this is so long .... There are so many questions about the OSB that haven't been answered yet.