Propaganda Ministry

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
Mannheim
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Propaganda Ministry

Postby Mannheim » 12 May 2018 05:39

I need help identifying the courtyard to the Propaganda Ministry. I am aware - having been there many times - that there are at least two wings of the former Propaganda Ministry still standing. However, some time ago I came across a photo (photo 1) from the site "Stadtentwicklung.Berlin.de" showing three sides to the courtyard and I am trying to reconcile it with another photo (photo 2). Basically what I want to know is whether the right-hand wall is the back of the Ordenspalais or not. The two possibilities as I see it are in photo three: the red arrow indicates one courtyard of a post-war photo, the blue indicates the second. The green arrow indicates the wall in question. Any ideas appreciated.
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Max
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Max » 12 May 2018 08:25

My take on the problem
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Untitled-2.jpg
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GregSingh
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby GregSingh » 13 May 2018 03:54

In my opinion Ordenspalais was roughly where I put yellow line.

PM 2.jpg
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Max
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Max » 13 May 2018 04:25

I obviously don't understand the question.
If the Ordenspalais is where you placed the yellow line, how can the building marked with the green arrow be its back wall?
I thought the question dealt with the position of the ministry courtyard.
My solution tried to reconcile the photo showing three wings with the one showing the post war two wings.
Have I got this hopelessly confused?
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GregSingh
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby GregSingh » 13 May 2018 06:30

Post war aerial photo of the area.
Red arrow - direction how the other photo was taken - with the Staatsverlag building on the left.
Yellow area - Ordenspalais location.
Original photo most likely shows courtyard from MauerStr., not WilhelmStr., not visible on the photo with Staatsverlag building.

Ordenspalais.jpg
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Mannheim
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Mannheim » 13 May 2018 08:38

If you have become hopelessly confused, Max, welcome to the club. I have wasted far too much time on this but it's driving me nuts and I have to get it sorted. In this original photo I have indicated some salient features: the far wall has ten sets of windows (marked in blue) and the wall on the right has some distinctive very low, square windows (marked in orange) of which there may or may not be ten.
But let's establish where the Ordenspalais was. In the photo (below)on the left you can see where the original Ordenspalais abuts the rest of (i.e. more modern) the Propaganda Ministry. The join is marked with a red arrow. Notice that the Ordenspalais is significantly shorter that the building it abuts. I believe this lets out the back of the Ordenspalais as the right-hand wall in the original photo I posted (the courtyard). In the photo on the right, the orange arrow indicates the (ten I believe) very low square-shaped windows which are peculiar to that wall only, as far as I can see. You can also see the three bricked-up entrances which must have led into the Ordenspalais. The blue arrow indicates the wall which survives today and which has a large-ish number of windows. On the right, the red square indicates (roughly) the position of the Ordenspalais.
I have run out of time due to Mother's Day duties but will continue tomorrow. Greg has pointed me towards some excellent maps which almost gave me the answer. I think.
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Mannheim
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Mannheim » 13 May 2018 08:48

Well I was about to bail but then I saw Greg's post. Good point as usual Greg except I would've thought the photo was taken in the courtyard marked (here) in blue as it seems to be the only one with a short (i.e.possibly ten-window wall) and I thought the photo may have been taken in either direction (blue arrow). Also, I was not aware that the courtyard could have been seen from Mauer Strasse. Thoughts?
P.S. Please ignore the coloured scribblings on the map - that was a direction I have abandoned due to a re-think.
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GregSingh
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby GregSingh » 13 May 2018 09:08

except I would've thought the photo was taken in the courtyard marked (here) in blue


Yes, that's correct. I meant original photo shows MauerStr. side courtyard, not the WilhelmStr. one.
Also entry to this courtyard is now from MauerStr. only, I believe.
Original photo was taken in parallel to MauerStr., 90deg to the entry, from South to North, entry being on the right - not visible on the photo.

Mannheim
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Mannheim » 13 May 2018 11:33

Excellent! That solves that. Thanks, Greg. I'll sleep well tonight!

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Max
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Max » 13 May 2018 12:03

I found this map a few hours ago before having to attend Mother's Day duties myself.
I'm not sure what the colours are all about, but it does show your courtyard.
Someone with better German than me will no doubt make better use of it than I can.
Cheers
Courtyard.JPG

http://fbinter.stadt-berlin.de/fb/index ... d=09080285
http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/d ... r=09080285
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Mannheim
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Mannheim » 13 May 2018 23:19

Thanks, Max. The stadtentwinklun.berlin.de site is where I originally found the photo. Incidentally, occasionally there are exhibitions inside the building, like the one in this photo. If you ever get inside the building, don't ask permission to photograph. Just snap away until you are told to stop - and perhaps you won't be. I got inside to see this (free) exhibition ("Looking into the Future") and foolishly asked a bored attendant if I could take photographs. He looked nonplussed, looked around presumably for a superior (it is Germany), couldn't find one and - it appeared to me - thought saying No was the safest option. Had I not asked I believe I could've snapped away to my heart's content.
As for "better German", a good idea is to highlight the whole text and just paste it into one of the translation sites. I often do this even though my wife is German as she sometimes gets fed up with translating stuff like this for me. Hard to believe I know ...
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tran ... e&ie=UTF-8
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Propaganda Ministry

Postby Geoff Walden » 14 May 2018 20:32

Amen!
I always found, while exploring in Germany, that it is better to forge ahead, then apologize when confronted and play the "stupid tourist" card (I wasn't proud - I played it when useful - it worked every time but once).
You're absolutely right, Gary. - if you stop and ask permission in Germany, 99 percent of the time the answer will be NO.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com


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