Berghof Obersalzberg

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Alex20
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alex20 » 01 Oct 2019 19:12

Br. James, I couldn’t swear to it, but I’m sure I’ve seen some stills of the ‘digging sequence’ somewhere with the caption that the pictures were of German soldiers (prisoners presumably) clearing the rubble from around the Berghof.

Alex

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avid21
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by avid21 » 03 Oct 2019 06:15

bg1.jpg
QUERY- in the attached pic (snapshots of two separate floors), the 'zimmers', show what seems like a washstand (washbasin). though the floors do have a bathroom nearby, what was the period logic and function of such features? wikipedia describes this as a 'washstand' . i tried (unsuccessfully) to locate some reference of 1930-40s for some image from that era.
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Br. James
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Br. James » 03 Oct 2019 14:41

Thanks for your response, Alex. The Berghof wasn't devastated by war until the very end, and much of the destruction was caused by Julius Schaub and his SS assistants who, on Hitler's orders, went down from Berlin to render Hitler's house as a complete loss. The British did bomb the area, as well, and there was a great amount of damage throughout the Obersalzberg Administration, but I still wonder what all that post-war digging was in aid of?!

Cheers,

Br. James

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 03 Oct 2019 18:26

Hi all,

Post-war digging - I think one of the main purposes was to fill in bomb craters to make the roads and trails passable, and to clear the ruins of possible duds and just plain rubble and junk, possibly to make the ruins more accessible to military tourists. Looking at photos taken right after the occupation, when the roads were barely passable (if that) to jeeps and the ruins were covered with rubble, compared to photos taken just a couple months later, it's apparent there was a LOT of cleanup work done right off.

Washstand - I don't have any images to offer, but a washstand was for the convenience of the guest room occupants, so they could wash face and hands (and shave, for men), in the privacy of their room without having to use the more public facilities. But I had thought that the building plans were showing sinks in these rooms ... does it seem more likely that these were washstands? I really don't know ...
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Mannheim
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Eckart's grave

Post by Mannheim » 10 Oct 2019 14:33

Well this is interesting: on Tuesday I took a photo of Dietrich Eckart's grave in the cemetery in Berchtesgaden (in the main street). On Wednesday (yesterday) the two distinctive tees flanking the grave were removed - not trimmed, nor cut down - uprooted.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 10 Oct 2019 14:36

Most likely they are preparing to remove the grave marker, which the city has been discussing for a while.
Let us know if there are any other changes before you leave. Any photos?
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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Annelie » 10 Oct 2019 14:38

Everyone who has ever visited that cemetery has taken a photo of
that grave.

Perhaps the trees (hope that is what you meant) were getting too
large (root wise) and had to be removed.

Hitlers sister is still there but under someone else's name now.

Next door to the cemetery there is an great restaurant visited a lot
by locals. The food is wonderful and you can probably sit outside with
the blankets they provide..it backs on to the cemetery.

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Mannheim » 10 Oct 2019 14:51

No luck with the Then and Now photo. The reception here is appalling, probably something to do with those colossal mountains. Will try again from Nuremberg in a few days. P.S. Hitler's sister Paula is buried in the other cemetery, Annalie. BTW, Geoff, the bus depot has been moved to the other side of the railway station during renovations. One of the two tunnels built into the rock face there was open, i.e. the gate was unlocked. I had a look inside and took a couple of photos but didn't go in for fear of arrest or -worse - entombment. I'll try to post both lots of photos from Nuremberg.
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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Annelie » 10 Oct 2019 15:08

Thankyou for the update and photos.

I looked at my old photo of the grave and the trees have grown a bit.
There were also on top of the gravy a bed of ivy and flowers I see are long
gone. I suppose those who visited and kept the grave a gone also.

Geoff maybe correct, the headstone always seemed to have aged a lot
which I don't mind as I always like original but now they use granite.

I would post mine but I can't find a program to resize the image which is
too large to post here.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 10 Oct 2019 19:39

Thanks for the photos, Gary! Over the years, I have seen that grave marker when it was nice and clean and when it looked like it does now (same with Hans Lammers' marker - sometimes it has been clean, sometimes it looks like it does now - like Eckart's marker). I have seen those trees when they were very tall, when they were not as tall as the marker, and when they had been lopped off at about the height of the marker. But I've never seen that grave like it is today.

The city authorities have been discussing for a couple years, what to do with that grave - whether to remove the grave and marker, remove the marker, just lay it down over the grave so the name is facing down, whatever. I do feel that eventually Eckart's name will not been seen there.

Their justification is that it is not really a "historic" marker, because it has been modified from the original. I think it probably is the original marker, but you can tell by looking closely that at some point the front face was refinished (ground off) and the name was re-engraved in a different style. This is what the marker looked like in the 1930s.
eckartgrabhammt.jpg
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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Annelie » 10 Oct 2019 21:50

I took this photo in 2007, don't know why I never took any later on.

Notice how someone painted the letters gold.
Plus the flowers and ground cover were always there that I remember.
Its obvious this grave was important to someone.
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Max
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Max » 11 Oct 2019 06:23

Geoff Walden wrote:
10 Oct 2019 19:39
The city authorities have been discussing for a couple years, what to do with that grave - whether to remove the grave and marker, remove the marker, just lay it down over the grave so the name is facing down, whatever. I do feel that eventually Eckart's name will not been seen there.
IF the authorities are worried about Eckart's Nazi association (I presume that it what it is), what are they going to do about the Dietrich Eckart Klinic ?
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Mannheim » 11 Oct 2019 15:11

I tell a lie: I had a closer look today. The trees have been sawn off close to the ground. The shavings from the sawing had obscured the stumps.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 11 Oct 2019 17:36

Max wrote:
11 Oct 2019 06:23
IF the authorities are worried about Eckart's Nazi association (I presume that it what it is), what are they going to do about the Dietrich Eckart Klinic ?
OK, so that's a building that has been derelict and unused for years, and getting in bad shape in parts. Like the Berchtesgadener Hof and Hotel Geiger, that are both gone now ... I'll give you one guess as to the Klinik's eventual fate.
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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 12 Oct 2019 14:46

Hello,
.
maybe my next three contributions are a somewhat off topic. But, I think they could be interesting for people which are interested in graves, cemeteries regarding some Berghof Visitors. I will also illustrate some footage which are supporting that issue.
(Note: All pictures of present were taken from me while our trip around Bavaria).
.
First I would like to share two pictures of the grave from Mrs. Magda Schneider. She has been buried in the Bergfriedhof of Berchtesgaden.
Field 5. Grave 12.
Mrs. Schneider was an actress and very famous in the 1930's and 1940's in Germany / Austria. She lived near the Berghof in Berchtesgaden and visited Hitler over a few years for many times. Well, the time goes by ... and in the winter of 1941 while the filming of the movie "Am Abend auf der Heide", Mrs. Schndeider and Miss Else von Möllendorff visited Hitler at his Berghof again. I am pretty sure, the picture recordings of Eva Braun are well-known. ..
Eva fotographed and filmed them together with Hitler, Gretl Braun, Mrs. Bormann and others, for example while the walk to the “Teehaus“, and then at the view point “Mooslahnerkopf“.
Timeslot 25:49 to 26:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb-yFC8ixyc
.
Else von Möllendorff is also recorded in Eva Braun's "Bunte Filmschau", within she named "Pünktchen". Well, that was just her nickname in the
movie - Napoleon ist allem Schuld - in 1938 (actually she was called Madeleine and played a Dancer).
Movie-Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vml2dNBDRHc
.
The whole sequence in Eva's "Bunte Filmschau" is named: "Pünktchen am Berg".
I think that’s a very common footage for people, who watching documentaries around this topic..
Timeslot 22:30 to 24:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2XGyMKnUx8
.
Note: Sofie Stork, also a very good friend of Eva, has created and designed the titles for Eva's "Bunte Filmschau".
.
Else v. Möllendorff had a friendship with Gretl Braun for many years. Based on that fact, she also attented the wedding of Gretl Braun mit Hermann Fegelein and was at the Kehlsteinhaus on June 3, 1944.
That wedding was three days before D-Day and on that point of time the most of German cities were bombed and destroyed. Millions of people had lost her life in this World War so far. And the Nazi-elite? They celebrated a big festiveness with exquisitely foot, drinks and a lot of glamour in Salzburg and Berchtesgaden. A paradox and unreal fact, isn’t it?
Anyhow, Hitler was not at the Kehlsteinhaus but in Eva Braun's footage is a short sequence with the newly-married couple and him in the Great Hall on the Berghof. This was the official press appointment and some historian have the opinion that Hitler was not really 'happy' about that.
Timeslot 06:43 to 12:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ1KJKx-nPk
.
But now back to Miss von Möllendorff ...
She was an attractive blonde occasional lead and supporting actress of German 1930's and 1940's in films. After the war she only played at theatre, mainly in Hamburg. There she married the businessman Horst Wiersbitzky on September 27, 1947. The couple lived in Hamburg until Mr. Wiersbitzky died. I have read in an article a long time ago, that she and Gretl Braun/Fegelein was still in contact, for many years after the end of the WWII.
Mrs. von Möllendorff spent her evening of life without being a part of the publicness, and died on July 28, 1982 near Lübeck in Northern Germany.
.
I am proud to have an original Autograph from her. The attachement is just a part of the whole document -

Vielen Dank für Ihren lieben Brief. Liebe Grüße, Ihre
Else von Möllendorff

Thank you for your kind letter. Lovely Reagrds, your
Else von Möllendorff
.
In Eva Braun's "Bunte Filmschau" several actresses and actors has been captured.
For example the very pretty Hansi Knoteck (a famous Ufa-Star in Germany), Paul Richter (also a great Ufa-Star at that time), Gustl Gsteetenbaur (a funny and very personable Actor), the lovely Käte Merk and others….
Note: UFA GmbH is a German film and television production company.
.
All of them are part of the sequence "Ausflug zum Kehlsteinhaus" at the beginning of the next foootage. Look at that relaxed, funny and very likable team. Within the Timeslot 00:48 to 00:59, you can see: Hansi Knoteck, Paul Richter, Gustl Gsteetenbaur and Käte Merk how they kidding around in front of the entry to the Kehlsteinhaus tunnel.
Furthermore, and also in that footage are some sequences during the filming of the movie called - Der Laufende Berg -.
Eva and Gretl were at the movie-set which was by the Hintersee. Sofie Storck named these scenes:
"Pause Mittagessen" (Hansi Knoteck), "Erneuerung der Schminke" (Gustl Gsteetenbaur), “Siegfrieds Kraftprobe“ (Paul Richter), and
"Aussen-Aufnahmen“ (mainly Hansi Knoteck and Paul Richter)
Timeslot 33:24 to the end (37:56)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ1KJKx-nPk
.
By the way, what a fantastic view behind the scenes in the early 1940's. How cool and uncoerced were the filmteam and filmstars at that time. The movie has been shown in German cinemas at springtime 1941 and Hitler watched the movie at the Berghof (that fact was mentioned in German documentaries).
Hitler invited the stars and the director of - Der laufende Berg - to the Berghof. Eva filmed amongst others Paul Richter and Gustl Gsteetenbaur together with Hitler on the terrace. I have cut out and attached two snapshots.
Note: I recommend the footage of the US National Archiv. The ‘movies‘ are titled: Eva Braun-Reel 1 of 8, Eva Braun-Reel 2 of 8 and so on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2XGyMKnUx8
.
Well, I hope my posting is not to much off-topic and includes interessting facts.
.
Regards, Alvin.
.
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Last edited by Alvin Y. on 12 Oct 2019 15:53, edited 5 times in total.

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