Berghof Obersalzberg

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Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5716

Post by Mannheim » 16 Jan 2020, 22:41

What is that square thing at extreme left?
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5717

Post by Geoff Walden » 17 Jan 2020, 01:51

Mannheim wrote:
16 Jan 2020, 22:41
What is that square thing at extreme left?
Dog wash? :milwink:
I dunno ... I always assumed it was a kiddie pool.
N.C. Wyeth wrote:
16 Jan 2020, 19:29
Boy - don't those photos bring back some memories? :)
My favorite thing was always the painting of the Farmer, just inside the entry. :D
I think this page must have been updated since this sale was announced several months ago. I sure don't remember that photo. It looks like the current owner has been moving things around. I have never seen that painting hanging there! All the years I was a guest in the Türken, that painting was on the opposite wall. (it was by Jo Hengge, who painted the original war memorial painting in the Berchtesgaden Schloßplatz)
That's a curious realtor page ... there are actually 19 guest rooms in the Türken (not 17) ... 21 in total, if one counts two tiny rooms that are at the end of the attic. Plus three multi-room apartments. And nowhere near 23 baths! There are 12 baths in guest rooms, three communal baths for the rooms that are not en suite, four (I think) total baths in the apartments, and a toilet in the basement (at the staircase to the tunnel).
If someone were to come up with the money, I wonder if that price would include the furnishings (like the paintings)?
You're so right, my friend, lots of memories! (now, for me, bittersweet)
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com


Project X
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5718

Post by Project X » 17 Jan 2020, 02:01

Maybe a rich Chinese buys it? Add the neighboring property and then rebuild the entire Berghof true to the original. THAT would be a tourist attraction! :-)

CPB
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5719

Post by CPB » 17 Jan 2020, 13:12

I picked up a rare set of color slides of the Berghof and other buildings the other day, including this one of the Tuerken labeled "SS Police House" - dated May 1945.The veteran was in a signals air warning unit. I will do better scans sometime and share these again.

The B&W photo is from another veteran, but interesting to see how they also labeled the Tuerken just like the Berghof, Haus Goering, etc. I wonder who did that.
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HT.jpg

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5720

Post by Geoff Walden » 18 Jan 2020, 19:39

Thanks, Chris!

And look at all that camouflage netting hanging there. I was always amazed at how much netting was hanging off the Türken after the bombing. Looked more more than was left on the Berghof itself.

Geoff
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

CraigM
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5721

Post by CraigM » 19 Jan 2020, 16:04

Geoff Walden wrote:
17 Jan 2020, 01:51
Mannheim wrote:
16 Jan 2020, 22:41
What is that square thing at extreme left?
Dog wash? :milwink:
I dunno ... I always assumed it was a kiddie pool.
It sure looks like a kiddie's wading pool. Just to the left of the house we can see what I'm sure is a sand pit that has two toys in it, the right one being a toy crane. He had 10 kids (!) so this would make sense. And so would the pool but what makes me uncertain is that it's on the other side of a picket fence, most of which is covered in a thick hedge. How would his kiddies get to the pool? And I don't think pool safety fences were a thing back then, especially not with hedges! Yes, a strange object indeed.

CraigM
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5722

Post by CraigM » 19 Jan 2020, 16:28

N.C. Wyeth wrote:
16 Jan 2020, 19:29
Boy - don't those photos bring back some memories? :)

My favorite thing was always the painting of the Farmer, just inside the entry. :D
The first time (last year) that I tried to make a booking to stay at the Türken it was closed because the heating system had gone kaput. Months later it was still kaput. It could easily have been repaired in the interim but sadly it never was and the place never reopened (bunker access remains open). The only views I've ever had inside have been of photos. :-(

Geoff: The painting on the left wall in that photo - is that of Frau Partner? Or perhaps Frau I. Scharfenberg?

I fear for the future of the place. The asking price is a LOT of money and I understand that the interior needs a good deal of refurbishment to bring it up to a commercial standard. I don't think that amount of investment is a viable commercial proposition so a buyer might be difficult or impossible to find. The authorities have never liked the place being there and I understand have harassed the owners for a very long time (causing issues with signage, road access, bunker access, regulations, etc.) so if a buyer can't be found, who knows what might become of it. Can anyone shed more light on what the authorities have done over the years (and why) and does anyone else have any info or suggestions for what the future holds for this lovely piece of history?

Br. James
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5723

Post by Br. James » 19 Jan 2020, 19:30

"Herr Bormann certainly had a primo view of the Turken, didn't he?

You bet, but more importantly, he had a primo view of Hitler's driveway and the entrance to the Berghof, whereby he (Bormann) could keep an eye on whoever came to visit -- and especially if he (Bormann) wasn't invited to meet with Hitler's visitors! One might think that Herr Bormann was a bit of A CONTROL FREAK...!!

Br. James

Project X
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5724

Post by Project X » 19 Jan 2020, 23:11

Is that the „square thing“?
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CraigM
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5725

Post by CraigM » 20 Jan 2020, 05:28

Project X wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 23:11
Is that the „square thing“?
Hello Project X. The map you included - is that a crop of a bigger one? I'm trying to find an accurate map that shows the exact location of Bormann's house in relation to the Hotel zum Türken and/or Berghof. Do you have a map with more on it? Thanks!

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5726

Post by Geoff Walden » 20 Jan 2020, 20:47

CraigM wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 16:28
N.C. Wyeth wrote:
16 Jan 2020, 19:29
Boy - don't those photos bring back some memories? :)

My favorite thing was always the painting of the Farmer, just inside the entry. :D
Geoff: The painting on the left wall in that photo - is that of Frau Partner? Or perhaps Frau I. Scharfenberg?
Yes, that's a portrait of Therese Partner, daughter of original Türken owner Karl Schuster, and mother of Ingrid Scharfenberg. I believe this portrait was by Karl Schuster-Winkelhof, her brother.
Project X wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 23:11
Is that the „square thing“?
Yes, a good view from the Hartmann Map. I looked at the 1945 aerial photos, but there was a lot of damage right around there and I couldn't pick out this object.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

Project X
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5727

Post by Project X » 21 Jan 2020, 00:29

CraigM wrote:
20 Jan 2020, 05:28
Project X wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 23:11
Is that the „square thing“?
Hello Project X. The map you included - is that a crop of a bigger one? I'm trying to find an accurate map that shows the exact location of Bormann's house in relation to the Hotel zum Türken and/or Berghof. Do you have a map with more on it? Thanks!
I found just that one:
B1F78508-6D25-4185-A48E-59F9CEECBE8F.jpeg

headwest
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5728

Post by headwest » 21 Jan 2020, 21:21

Hi Everyone

May be a dumb question, and I ma be remembering this incorrectly. DO any of the tunnels connect from the Zum Turken to the old Berghof Basement? and if so, and you bought the Turken, would you own any of the tunnels?

also then who owns or is in charge of the tunnels that are not on private or commercial property? Is it the local state that owns the Berghof property and tunnels?

And last, is there a map or zoning that shows the breakdown of property lines? kind of like ZILLOW here in the US when your looking for homes and property? would be cool to seehow large the tract of land is for the Turken, and what the old Berghof property is

CraigM
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5729

Post by CraigM » 22 Jan 2020, 15:16

headwest wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 21:21
Hi Everyone

May be a dumb question, and I ma be remembering this incorrectly. DO any of the tunnels connect from the Zum Turken to the old Berghof Basement? and if so, and you bought the Turken, would you own any of the tunnels?

also then who owns or is in charge of the tunnels that are not on private or commercial property? Is it the local state that owns the Berghof property and tunnels?

And last, is there a map or zoning that shows the breakdown of property lines? kind of like ZILLOW here in the US when your looking for homes and property? would be cool to seehow large the tract of land is for the Turken, and what the old Berghof property is
Hello headwest. No, not dumb questions, and very interesting answers! Yes the tunnels under the Türken DO connect to Hitler's system under the Berghof in one direction, and to the Vordereck/command system and Bormann's in the other direction. However, at the Türken property boundaries they are bricked up so that you cannot proceed into those systems - you can only go to the edges of the property line. So I suppose it's more accurate to say that they WERE connected. There's still a good degree of interesting stuff under the Türken that's open to anyone willing to pay the €5 entry fee (it went up), such as holding cells, two levels, several machine gun posts, former rooms for RSD (Reich Security Service) personnel, guard dog rooms and so on, but the holy grails of Hitler's, Vordereck and Bormann's tunnels are inaccessible (although at the Berghof wall there's a small opening at the top left, just big enough to point a camera through - you can't see very far though).

I'm pretty certain that the buyer of the Türken (if they can find one) will own those tunnels, and I'm pretty certain of this because I understand that the Bavarian government is not at all happy about these being open and that they would close them if they could, so Mrs Scharfenberg (the current owner) must own them because they are out of reach of the government. Perhaps someone else here can confirm.

A friend of mine says that the boundaries changed slightly at some point with a land swap but I don't know the details of this.

Yes the government owns the Berghof site and surrounding areas. You will not see these come up for sale. EVER! They would never risk the site falling into the hands of the "wrong" people.

Others on this forum have better maps than I do but I'm certain that the boundaries would be very clear in the sale paperwork - a buyer would have to know exactly where the boundaries are. Unfortunately this information doesn't appear to form part of the online ads.

Project X
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#5730

Post by Project X » 22 Jan 2020, 20:05

You should find some informations here: https://geodatenonline.bayern.de/geodat ... -plus_info

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