Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

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history1
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by history1 » 18 Nov 2020 16:44

Sid Guttridge wrote:
18 Nov 2020 14:38
Hi History1,

Indeed I do. Thanks for the correction. Here It is again with your modification:

"Hi History1,

As George L. Gregory says, the whole Anschluss project was predicated on the Austrians being ethnic Germans.

I am more than a little surprised that you didn't know that, given you style yourself "History1"!.

Cheers,

Sid"
I didn´t modificate YOUR text. Thus you can´t call it my modification.

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Sheldrake
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by Sheldrake » 18 Nov 2020 22:12

George L Gregory wrote:
16 Nov 2020 16:23
Sheldrake wrote:
15 Nov 2020 11:30
It is a fallacy is to consider populations as if they were individuals.
Although I haven't done that, enlighten me and tell what that fallacy is called. :lol:
Its as version of the the rational commander fallacy - treating interactions of populations as if they were a single person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_of_Decision

It is treating the Austrians" as if they were one person, instead of millions of people with different characteristics, DNA languages, family origins, faith, political orientation etc. As history1, an Austrian, points out Austria is a multi ethnic state.

There is also a second question about what exactly constitutes German ethnicity. German Nationalists and Nazis tied themselves in knots over who could be considered German. Could a Jew be a German? How about Volga Germans from the heart of Russia who spoke no German. What about people who were mixed race German- Pole/ German- Jewish.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 18 Nov 2020 22:31

Hi History1,

You are, of course, absolutely right. Here It is again with my modification derived from your earlier correction:

"Hi History1,

As George L. Gregory says, the whole Anschluss project was predicated on the Austrians being ethnic Germans.

I am more than a little surprised that you didn't know that, given you style yourself "History1"!.

I hope this now meets with your approval.

No thanks are necessary.

Cheers,

Sid

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Hans1906
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by Hans1906 » 18 Nov 2020 23:44

Sid, please, with all respect...

Our colleague Roman, known here as the user "history1", is a well-known expert on this wide range of topics, and there is no need to tackle the man.

A mutual exchange about a personal message should have a clarifying effect, I would like that personally.

Hans1906

P.S. My only comment in this topic was misplaced, I apologize for this.

P.S.S. And you are more than long enough in many forums, to take your time, to be patient as well, none of us is breaking a sweat for this, not even you.

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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 19 Nov 2020 08:45

Hi Hans1906,

I am displaying History1 all due respect. I have twice modified my posts to accommodate him.

His real name might be Roman and he may be "a well-known expert", but we cannot be expected to know that if he uses a pseudonym. We can only go on the quality of what he posts here, and it is to part of that to which I am replying.

For those still following the thread, the link below is to a DNA map that shows that Austrians are approaching 50% Germanic. The rest is largely Slavic and Celtic;
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/genetic_ ... l#Germanic

However, as their language, culture and self image is Germanic, DNA doesn't tell the whole story.

Cheers,

Sid.

George L Gregory
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by George L Gregory » 19 Nov 2020 19:10

history1 wrote:
18 Nov 2020 13:24
George L Gregory wrote:
15 Nov 2020 01:26
You're moving the goalposts now by discussing genetics. DNA doesn't tell you your race (which is a social construct anyway, never mind your ethnic group. (which is also a social construct). [...]

It is a fact that the only reason Austria never unified Germany was because the Prussians defeated the Austrians in the German war. If history had turned out differently then the Austrians would have unified Germany as Greater Germany.[...]
Your guesswork is everything but facts. Proof it!
George L Gregory wrote:
15 Nov 2020 01:26
Doesn’t the Greater Germany concept ring any bells? 8O
Greater Germany? LOL
Who cares for GG when the question is "Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?"?
Just the other day I met a friend from from the Burgenland Croatian minority. I don´t repeat here what he did say when he heard about your idiotic claim that Austrians consider themself being Germans.
You posted, “I´m out of this nonsense.”

Please practice what you preach and stop trying to derail this thread.

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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by George L Gregory » 19 Nov 2020 19:45

Sheldrake wrote:
18 Nov 2020 22:12
George L Gregory wrote:
16 Nov 2020 16:23
Sheldrake wrote:
15 Nov 2020 11:30
It is a fallacy is to consider populations as if they were individuals.
Although I haven't done that, enlighten me and tell what that fallacy is called. :lol:
Its as version of the the rational commander fallacy - treating interactions of populations as if they were a single person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_of_Decision

It is treating the Austrians" as if they were one person, instead of millions of people with different characteristics, DNA languages, family origins, faith, political orientation etc. As history1, an Austrian, points out Austria is a multi ethnic state.
Are you just playing games? A Google search of "rational commander fallacy" brings up no results. You're just making things up.

Don't try and argue about semantics when I've never even argued like that. If one uses a plural word then he/she is obviously on about more than one person. When one mentions a specific group of people then he/she is on about them collectively. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the terms 'collectively' and 'majority'.

You used the false analogy fallacy when you tried to compare Austrians and Germans to the English and the Scottish. You used the red herring fallacy by posting quite simply nonsense that had nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

I'm well aware that the Austrian Empire was a multi-ethnic state. That was one of the reasons Austria never became part of Germany - the Austrian-Germans were unwilling to give up their non-German territories. But, we are discussing the Austrians, not the other ethnic groups that lived in Austria. Germany also had ethnic minorities such as the Jews and the Poles, and?

Also, if you had bothered to research this topic then you would know that both left-wing and right-wing people still considered themselves to be Austrians and Germans at the same time because "Austrians" were seen as just another type of Germans, just like people considered themselves Bavarians and Germans.

I'll make it very simple for you:

Austrian = singular
Austrians = plural

Prior to WW2, Austrians (PLURAL) did consider themselves to be Germans.

Check out the surveys I cited which were taken after WW2 and the Austrians (PLURAL) who were asked if they still considered themselves to be Germans resulted in nigh on half of them stating "Yes".
There is also a second question about what exactly constitutes German ethnicity. German Nationalists and Nazis tied themselves in knots over who could be considered German. Could a Jew be a German? How about Volga Germans from the heart of Russia who spoke no German. What about people who were mixed race German- Pole/ German- Jewish.
This may come across as an ad hominem, but I can't help but notice that you appear to not even be reading what I post because I previously posted:
You do realise that even the Nazis admitted that ethnic Germans were a mixed people, right?
Your post:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=253416#p2302306

appears to even agree with me.

But, yet you're trying to claim that Austrian history and German history are different.

Make up your mind.

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Sheldrake
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by Sheldrake » 19 Nov 2020 20:40

George L Gregory wrote:
19 Nov 2020 19:45
Also, if you had bothered to research this topic then you would know that both left-wing and right-wing people still considered themselves to be Austrians and Germans at the same time because "Austrians" were seen as just another type of Germans, just like people considered themselves Bavarians and Germans.

I'll make it very simple for you:

Austrian = singular
Austrians = plural

Prior to WW2, (Many but not all) Austrians (PLURAL) did consider themselves to be Germans.

Check out the surveys I cited which were taken after WW2 and the Austrians (PLURAL) who were asked if they still considered themselves to be Germans resulted in nigh on half of them stating "Yes". (In other words it is not true that all Austrians considered themselves Germans)
I have corrected your words. Please read the Essence of decision. It really is an excellent work. It is simplistic to write of whole population as "The Germans or The Austrians as if they were individual people.

George L Gregory
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by George L Gregory » 19 Nov 2020 21:32

Sheldrake wrote:
19 Nov 2020 20:40
George L Gregory wrote:
19 Nov 2020 19:45
Also, if you had bothered to research this topic then you would know that both left-wing and right-wing people still considered themselves to be Austrians and Germans at the same time because "Austrians" were seen as just another type of Germans, just like people considered themselves Bavarians and Germans.

I'll make it very simple for you:

Austrian = singular
Austrians = plural

Prior to WW2, (Many but not all) Austrians (PLURAL) did consider themselves to be Germans.

Check out the surveys I cited which were taken after WW2 and the Austrians (PLURAL) who were asked if they still considered themselves to be Germans resulted in nigh on half of them stating "Yes". (In other words it is not true that all Austrians considered themselves Germans)
I have corrected your words. Please read the Essence of decision. It really is an excellent work. It is simplistic to write of whole population as "The Germans or The Austrians as if they were individual people.
Go and troll somewhere else.

George L Gregory
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by George L Gregory » 19 Nov 2020 23:05

Adolf Hitler was Austrian. Was it strange for an Austrian to be the leader Germany in 1933? The simple answer is, "No".

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Georg_S
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by Georg_S » 20 Nov 2020 18:47

I have Read this thread with interesst , but what have strucked me is the use of abusive language. Please Read the rules about Being polite. If you dont agree with the poster make your point but to deny someone a opinion is diffucult .

In My opinion I agree to the original poster but I expand it and days that Austria, Germany and Scandinavians are all of the Germanic blood. ☺️👍

Was is Ceasar WHO once Said - may the gods protect me from the furious germans

Regards
Georg
Waffen-SS, SS-TV, KZ/KL SS-Pz.A.A.
- http://wennallebruderschweigen.blogspot.com/

GoeringsPetLion
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by GoeringsPetLion » 21 Nov 2020 14:42

Austrians and the people of Old Bavaria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altbayern) in Bavaria, Germany, both speak Bavarian (Bairisch). Wienerisch (the dialect of Vienna, Austria) and Münchnerisch (the dialect of Munich, Bavaria, Germany) belong to the Middle Bavarian dialect group (Mittelbairisch). Furthermore, there is a North Bavarian dialect group (Nordbairisch) in Bavaria and a South Bavarian dialect group (Südbairisch) in Austria and a small part of Bavaria. Other dialects spoken in Bavaria are East Franconian (Ostfränkisch, for example in Nuremberg) and Swabian (Schwäbisch, for example in Augsburg).

Hitler spoke with a Middle Bavarian accent. Göring grew up in Fürth and Ansbach, Bavaria, therefore he spoke with an East Franconian (Ostfränkisch) accent ("Jachdfliecher" = Jagdflieger = fighter pilot).

Image
Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... darten.png, public domain
Last edited by GoeringsPetLion on 21 Nov 2020 16:03, edited 2 times in total.

history1
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by history1 » 21 Nov 2020 15:23

George L Gregory wrote:
19 Nov 2020 23:05
Adolf Hitler was Austrian. Was it strange for an Austrian to be the leader Germany in 1933? The simple answer is, "No".
Keep spreading your idiocy, we enjoy a good laugh.
30. April 1925: Hitler wird auf Antrag aus der österreichischen Staatsbürgerschaft entlassen und ist seither staatenlos.
Source: https://www.dhm.de/lemo/biografie/adolf-hitler

history1
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by history1 » 21 Nov 2020 15:28

George L Gregory wrote:
19 Nov 2020 23:05
Adolf Hitler was Austrian. Was it strange for an Austrian to be the leader Germany in 1933? The simple answer is, "No".
And states himself in post 14:
Nothing in your source states that he was stateless before 1925 when he asked for his Austrian citizenship to be formally renounced.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

George L Gregory
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Re: Is it true that Austrians are ethnic Germans?

Post by George L Gregory » 22 Nov 2020 18:06

history1 wrote:
21 Nov 2020 15:28
George L Gregory wrote:
19 Nov 2020 23:05
Adolf Hitler was Austrian. Was it strange for an Austrian to be the leader Germany in 1933? The simple answer is, "No".
And states himself in post 14:
Nothing in your source states that he was stateless before 1925 when he asked for his Austrian citizenship to be formally renounced.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
He was an Austrian by birth.

I thought it was quite obvious what I meant in that post. :roll:

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