Führerbunker pictures thread

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
VanillaNuns
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by VanillaNuns » 31 Aug 2020 00:38

The Traudl Junge story is probably true (I don't think she would make things up) but Ms Junge did admit the sound could very easily have been a near hit from an artillery shell as the chancellery garden was under severe bombardment all afternoon.

Biber
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by Biber » 31 Aug 2020 11:39

VanillaNuns wrote:
31 Aug 2020 00:38
The Traudl Junge story is probably true (I don't think she would make things up) but Ms Junge did admit the sound could very easily have been a near hit from an artillery shell as the chancellery garden was under severe bombardment all afternoon.
I find this confusion very difficult to believe. Would than not be like confusing distant thunder with a firecracker being set off in a closed room a not-so-short distance away?

Ernie Primeau
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by Ernie Primeau » 20 Oct 2020 00:38


hansj
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by hansj » 08 Dec 2020 19:07

Hello all,
Although new to posting here, I have read the entire thread, as well as the Neu Reichskanzlei thread-- all in a search for an answer to a question I've had for years now. And that is this: (Unless I have missed it on either thread...) Has anyone ever been able to determine, with any certainty, just exactly from whence in the Reichskanzlei the furniture in AH's sitting room came? (Chairs, sofa in particular.)
For instance, "...the blue patterned arrangement was definitely matched to this set, or that, from so-ans-so's office. And here's a picture to prove it!" It's oftentimes said that the bunkers were furnished with pictures and furniture moved in from the Chancellery above. There is no reason to doubt this.
I'm merely wondering if anyone has ever compared photographs and discovered, "Sure enough, here's that sofa-- pre-bloodstains!-- in Minister X's waiting room!"

Thanx,
hans

Br. James
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by Br. James » 09 Dec 2020 16:41

An interesting question, hans. One of the problems which has followed your efforts to locate the previous location of the furniture in Hitler's sitting room in the Führerbunker is that, while pix do exist of the public and major rooms in both the Old and New Reichschancellery, so few photos exist of the various functionary offices -- other than Hitler's offices -- and when pix arise, they are seldom identified as to whose office and where in the buildings that office was located.

Best of luck with your quest, and a hearty WELCOME among us!

Br. James

TheNewt
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Re: Führerbunker pictures forum

Post by TheNewt » 15 Jan 2021 04:45

miltoning wrote:
16 May 2012 05:42
ghostsoldier wrote:
miltoning wrote:Hi, guys, I am new to this. But I got really interested in Führerbunker. I actually have several basic questions and hope that you guys could answer them. I really appreciate it.

My question is about current situation of Führerbunker . 1. Is the vorbunker completely removed? 2. is the ceiling of Führerbunker completely removed but the side walls and floors remained? 3. Where are the furnitures and other stuff in the Führerbunker ??

THANKS A LOT
I'll do my best:

1) Yes, the VB is completely gone.

2) Yes, the ceiling is gone, and from what I understand, all but a few of the exterior walls are gone, but the floor is there.

3) All gone. Be it as spoils of war, soldier bring-back souvenir, government/military seizure (Soviet), discarded/destroyed, museum or private collections, you name it...nothing remains.

Rob
Thank you so much Rob.
That is actually so sad. Almost nothing left. As an important part of the history, I think it should have been reserved. I really want to dig it up to see what is left.

milton
Hi-In Speers book "Inside the Third Reich" , he said the were chairs, that he designed, from the Chancellery that were in use at Spandau during his stay there.

GoeringsPetLion
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by GoeringsPetLion » 18 Jan 2021 02:02

hansj wrote:
08 Dec 2020 19:07
It's oftentimes said that the bunkers were furnished with pictures and furniture moved in from the Chancellery above.
Gerdy Troost was responsible for the furnishing of the Chancellery. Like the bunker sofa, the sofa in Hitler's workroom in the Chancellery was blue, but it was longer (four metre), had a sinuous armrest, and was covered with a brocatelle pattern showing a pomegranate, as is written here, while the other pattern showed a man with a stag.

Image
Source: https://www.german-reich.info/reichskan ... l_III.html

Image
Source: Photographed by William Vandivert, LIFE magazine, https://artsandculture.google.com/asset ... dq5EKrJi9Q

Some wooden and textile remains with bloodstains are kept by the Russian State Archive (of Socio-Political History?); they are shown in the documentary Riddles of the Dead: Hitler's Skull (https://youtu.be/FK4IIL3p-L8?t=1524). A piece showing a man is kept by the Museum of World War II (https://museumofworldwarii.org/collecti ... photograph).

Biber
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by Biber » 26 Feb 2021 16:19

GoeringsPetLion wrote:
18 Jan 2021 02:02
Some wooden and textile remains with bloodstains are kept by the Russian State Archive (of Socio-Political History?); they are shown in the documentary Riddles of the Dead: Hitler's Skull (https://youtu.be/FK4IIL3p-L8?t=1524). A piece showing a man is kept by the Museum of World War II (https://museumofworldwarii.org/collecti ... photograph).
A piece of fabric may also be seen at Gettysburg Museum of History.

https://www.gettysburgmuseumofhistory.c ... ler-couch/

palaisfan
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by palaisfan » 26 Feb 2021 23:04

hansj wrote:
08 Dec 2020 19:07
Hello all,
Although new to posting here, I have read the entire thread, as well as the Neu Reichskanzlei thread-- all in a search for an answer to a question I've had for years now. And that is this: (Unless I have missed it on either thread...) Has anyone ever been able to determine, with any certainty, just exactly from whence in the Reichskanzlei the furniture in AH's sitting room came? (Chairs, sofa in particular.)
For instance, "...the blue patterned arrangement was definitely matched to this set, or that, from so-ans-so's office. And here's a picture to prove it!" It's oftentimes said that the bunkers were furnished with pictures and furniture moved in from the Chancellery above. There is no reason to doubt this.
I'm merely wondering if anyone has ever compared photographs and discovered, "Sure enough, here's that sofa-- pre-bloodstains!-- in Minister X's waiting room!"

Thanx,
hans
It is an interesting question, and at least in one case may be possible to trace more closely. In Despina Stratigako's book "Hitler at Home" there are plans of the Troost renovations of the private part of the Old Chancellery, the so-called residence part that would include Hitler's bedroom and the one that served as Eva Braun's. Where the bunker is concerned, a few books have almost off-hand claimed (and the quality tends to affirm it) that the furnishings in Eva Braun's bunker room were carted down directly from her upper story floor room. Quite possibly also Hitler's was. It must might be possible to match up the furniture seen on plans with particular items in the 1945 bunker looting photographs. Since active on the Prinzregent apartment thread, can't help but notice that the relative sparseness of furniture in Hitler's supposed `master bedroom' corresponds closely with what you see in the bunker. Maybe everything there is indeed simply straight from his Old Reich Chancellery palace bedroom and it was similarly arranged; spartan as the items look?

But that is not to go on for tracing items much, even so. But I do think you should look at the rooms of the private study, library, and bedroom of Hitler's residence wing.

- palaisfan

palaisfan
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by palaisfan » 11 Mar 2021 01:20

milvz wrote:
22 Sep 2019 01:59
Here are some Pictures from the movie: the dawnfall.

is anyone currently interested in the subject of the führerbunker?
milvz,

It looks like you are doing impressive work. You are right that there seem to be some errors in many depictions, but this understandable because what has become clear is that even those that took photographs were somewhat disoriented about the arrangement of any given room. Another problem is the translation of terms from the German to English in so many accounts. Particularly troublesome is how often "conference room" is used both for the main corridor and also the side room better thought of as the map room, or even the `marriage' room.

I have purchased and watched Christopher Neubauer's superb 1943 DVD on the Füehrerbunker and it clears up many things and matches the photos exact. (Its also just fascinating the intricacy of the construction. Very much recommend it) Important things are learning of the limited entrances to the segments of the lower bunker. Some amazon reviews have mentioned that it doesn't show furnishings, but there are really no materials for this, and for that you have to look at things to fit into the DVD's narrative. In clarifying the actual divisions and doors it makes it all gell.

For what you are seeking to do, you will want to look at this. I haven't seen it referenced yet. Since its a full two years after the end of the war and the big issue with the photos, it seems it is overlooked. But this March 17, 1947 Life issue condensation of Trevor Roper's work for this painting to guide the text very obviously uses the photos at their disposal. This makes it quite important for reconstructing the look of the furniture. Notice though, how the room arrangements seem incorrect for all but the most known areas. Their time down in the bunker and getting their bearings was short. Its more important for yours and the others asking about the furnishings in a given room. The gap is caused by the binding gap, so you lose a little.

The best hope of some kind of greater clarity is if the fuller extent of the Russian records ever comes out. That's the only one that might have photographed what remained of the furnishings in unrelated rooms, but you get the distinct impression the May 1946 inquiry focused really only on the suicide locations.
March1947-LIFE-bunker-painting-accurate-splice.jpg
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Mannheim
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by Mannheim » 13 Mar 2021 03:31

I found another of William Vandivert's photos on a Facebook page (Berlin Luft Terror) which started me thinking. If as Rochus Misch tells us, the Bunker emergency exit (blue arrow) is roughly where the boomgate is on today's Gertrud-Kolmar-Strasse, that would mean that the current Gertrud-Kolmar-Strasse passes through (roughly) what would have once been the Mosaic Hall. Any thoughts?
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Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

palaisfan
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by palaisfan » 13 Mar 2021 05:04

Mannheim,

It definitely does pass right through where it would be given your red lines. The skylight roughly approximated exactly the Mosaic Hall. The indentations at each end were those alcove like places where the great doorways were. Given your lines, the Gertrud-Kolmar Strasse does go right through it. Now another thing is that part of the cellar was one of the more prominent of the de-facto Chancellery bunkers. Mohnke's command post was under the Round Hall. So when that street went through, it went right through that area. A bomb had crashed through the square skylight that covers the round hall at some point.

Incidentally, that photo answers an old question. Why were Hitler's private quarters not ransacked more. Answer: -- wow- -- the first floors have clearly collapsed down into the level below. There is almost nothing probably left to scavenge. (But their furnishings had been moved down into the bunker apparently) You can clearly see where one door is above the other--the entire first floor missing in the library and bedroom area particularly. The Congress Hall is just as imploded. (It had already been damaged in November 1943). On the bunker, if you look hard, you see the trench and the cement mixer by it.

palaisfan
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by palaisfan » 21 May 2021 04:58

Hello all,

The saga of 1945 and the last days in the Führerbunker and Reichskanzlei complex were an old interest and favorite mystery
to explore since the 90's. It would have been great to have back then what have just found. I don't recall seeing this posted. If you ever wanted to re-explore those days with the primary sources and interviews only, here's the chance. It was a real pleasant surprise to discover the famous Michael Musmanno interviews have been digitized in an easy to access and download environment. Wanted to share in case some were looking for it in a similar way.

https://digital.library.duq.edu/digital ... er/search/
phrase
Musmanno Collection -- Interrogations of Hitler Associates

They are all there, all the ones that so many authors have quoted partially or in full of various witnesses. The secretaries, Axmann, etc. Many of these went into the early book "Ten Days to Die" which has more meat in it than may be realized, but has been superseded -- probably mostly by James O'Donnell's book. But they contain pre-war nuggets too.

- palaisfan

Linkagain
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Re: Führerbunker pictures thread

Post by Linkagain » 10 Jun 2021 14:51

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bund ... anzlei.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... 183-M1204-


318,_Berlin,_zerst%C3%B6rte_Reichskanzlei.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... bunker.jpg {picture of destroyed structures from the other side]

Fuhrerbunker or VorBunker picture?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... Hitler.jpg
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxserp=0


last pictures of Hitler-alleged to have been taken in the FuhrerBunker/Vorbunber,,,actaully taken in ruins of Reich Chanchallerory?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxserp=0



Lasltly I think it was in ryans the Last battle is a statement by Speer that the smoke from burning remains of Hither and his wife were carried by the outside ventalation system into the Bunker..it smelled like Burning Bacon. Did any other survivors of the Bunker confirm or dispute this claim?

yaboygbglat
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Re:

Post by yaboygbglat » 07 Aug 2021 10:19

Reichssammler wrote:
02 Jun 2007 09:46
Cor wrote:What is happenend with the suicide sofa? Is it burned by the russians or was it still there in 1988? I can't believe it' still there under ground. Is there anybody who knows anything about it?
It´s still in the Russian archive. I think in 2005 or 2006, the german crime-investigator Marc Brehmke had the chance to examine the sofa (there´s a tv show too where you can see his documentation). He also examined the body parts from Hitler, a very interesting show.
:)
The russians should give us that (I don´t know the english word for that) "Kulturgut" back.

Ps. If you want I can show you some photos where you can see the uniforms of Hitler and other things in the russian archive.

@Cor: oh yes, there are some pictures where you can see the destruction and the russians.
I just found about this forum and sorry for bringing this old post up but could you send me a link or show where i could see ''destruction and the russians'' you mention to the other person . Thanks in advance!

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