The Munich Thread

[Keir]

Remarkable photo, Annelie.
Took the kid to the Deutschen Museum and made a couple of comparison shots-

[Annelie]

Great photos yourself Kier.

Thanks

you can find maybe more at his facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dark-His ... tos_stream

[Keir]

Got the kid hooked on ancient history through our bedtime reading sessions so visited some appropriate museums in Munich today. Did manage to get some Third Reich-related shots of course...
The Verwaltungsbau is unchanged right down to the light fittings and hand railings; bought a book a the Glyptothek about the buildings around Koenigsplatz but would like to find proper high-quality pics:
http://www.tracesofevil.com/2008/01/mun ... platz.html

[Keir]

The Glyptothek after the war and this afternoon

[Keir]

The interior from 1938 paintings and today; the obelisk now in the Egyptian museum next to the former Fuehrerbau

[Annelie]

Nice, thanks for sharing Keir.

That was pretty sneaky of you to get your child hooked on history so that
you can quietly continue your pursuit . Smart.

[Keir]

Annelie- it seems that everytime we visit the Glyptothek my son gets something- today he was given two pewter gladiators; last time the guy at the shop just gave him this Tyrannosaurus worth over 20 euros-

[Annelie]

Your son must be a charmer.
Something learned perhaps lol..

[Keir]

Christmas 1937 at the Verwaltungsbau and now. Period photo from Das Parteizentrum der NSDAP in Muenchen by by Ulrike Grammbitter and Iris Lauterbach, ISBN 978-3422021532.

[Jeroen7]

Hi there. Right now I’m planning a new video production for the series Now & Then, this time in München. I have a question which I hope someone can answer. It’s about the location of the Bürgerbräukeller and the pictures I found of it.

First, I know there’s nothing left anymore. You have the Gasteig and the Hilton at the Rosenheimer Strasse build on top of it.

I know one entrance would be at the current S-bahn exit between the hotel.


Secondly, there was another entrance at the Kellerstrasse.

Sadly, I have found three different entrance pictures, so I’m figuring out which one is located where.

1. Stone


2. Arche


3. Handshake


I also found a color film with pictures 1 and 2 in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK5PDmBiHO8

So, where is what? Is there an old map? Or does someone know to pinpoint all pictures?

I know all pictures are on a street. After some research I found a movie (can’t find the link anymore) where I saw the Rosenheimer Strasse and an entrance like picture 1. So picture 1 must be at the Rosenheimer Strasse. But was it at the location of the S-Bahn exit? Or somewhere else? And where are pictures 2 or 3 taken? Is one of them taken at the Kellerstrasse, and if so, why did they start a march over there?

All thanx in advance!

[GregSingh]

S-bahn exit shown is in the area of former Stadtkeller at number 17 Rosenheimer Strasse. Perhaps photo 3 was taken there?
I don't think it was an entry to Bürgerbräukeller which was at 29 Rosenheimer Strasse.

Entries from photos 1 and 2 were close to each other, both between Schleibinger Strasse and Gallmayer Strasse, but on the opposite side of Rosenheimer Strasse (odd numbers).

[Geoff Walden]

The NS Documentation Center in Munich opened today (in fact, the opening ceremony is going on as I type this). Long in the planning, this was supposed to open four or five years ago, but it's open now (oberhessin can tell us a lot more about the background).

http://www.ns-dokumentationszentrum-muenchen.de/centre

Back to the Bürgerbräukeller ... I have never been able to figure out where Nr. 3 was taken. The caption in the Illustrierter Beobachter for 12 Nov. 1936 says "Vor dem Bürgerbräukeller."

My source for saying on my webpage that the main entrance was where the S-Bahn steps are is admittedly not certain. A few years ago, I was standing there with a tour group, holding period photos and looking around, and a woman who appeared to be in her 50s rode up on a bicycle and proceeded to tell us all about the 9th Nov. and the Bürgerbräukeller, march route, assassination attempt, etc. I have no idea who she was, but she was certainly well informed and seemed quite certain in her information. She told us that the main entrance had been in the area where the S-Bahn steps are today.

Somewhere, I have seen a map, or a photo, or a film, that shows the front of the Bürgerbräukeller along Rosenheimer Str., showing which side of the street it was on, and where it was, and where these two entrances were in relation to each ther. I will try to dig it up.

Geoff

[Geoff Walden]

I couldn't find what I was thinking of, but I found some interesting stuff. First, here is an enlargement from a 1935 plan of the Putsch Route. It's cut off where we really need to see it (anybody seen a better version of this map?), but it shows both "main" entrances to the Bürgerbräukeller on the north side of Rosenheimer Str., somewhat SE of Am Gasteig (this rendering is probably not strictly to scale).

9novmarchroute1935t.jpg

9novmarchroute1935.jpg

Here is a link that has a photo showing both of these entrances together on the street front. (This is a useful photo - it would be nice to see it in larger format.)
http://www.georg-elser-arbeitskreis.de/ ... udio35.htm

More photos here - http://www.georg-elser-arbeitskreis.de/ ... rbraeu.htm .

Some more interesting film footage - http://footage.framepool.com/en/shot/46 ... ly-assault .

This is really good flyover footage from 1945, although it doesn't show the BBkeller. The second half of the clip is a really interesting view over the Bavarian Army Museum, the Residenz, the Odeonsplatz (with the Feldherrnhalle to the left), and down Brienner Str. over Karolinenplatz to the edge of the Königsplatz, with the Ehrentempeln and Führerbau and Verwaltungsbau visible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk8nI3LEYBY

[Geoff Walden]

OK, here is a period map that I found, that is sadly not detailed, but it shows the Bürgerbräukeller (Nr. 18) on the north side of Rosenheimer Str., about halfway between Gasteig and Stein Str. (Stein Str. is not labeled - it is the continuation of Franziskaner Str. on the north side of Rosenheimer Str.). This is very close to where the S-Bahn steps are today, between the Gasteig building and the Hilton (closer to the west wing of the Hilton).

source - Verkehrsverein München e.V., München, Ratschläge und Anregungen für ihren Aufenthalt in der Hauptstadt der Bewegung (1938) (a tourism pamphlet)

[grassi]

Maybe this fountain is good for orientation.
The commemorative plaque for Georg Elser and the bomb in the column is not far away from there.
It is in the passage in the background of the foto on Wiki. So maybe you can deduce the entrance from that.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich-Schulze-Brunnen

Best regards

grassi