The grave marker of Fritz Todt

[ihoyos]

[Split from "Horst Wessel grave almost gone"]

The grave marker of Fritz Todt is again in his place in Invalidenfriedhoff.
The lower photo belong to the Geoof Walden contribution to the page findagrave.com
The upper photo is the actual as today looks the spot.

[Adam Carr]

Damn. I walked all over the Invalidenfriedhoff and I didn't see that.

[Geoff Walden]

I didn't see it either, Adam, when I was there in October or November 2006. I looked in that specific spot (having a photo of that new marker in my hand), and there was no such marker there, or anywhere else in the cemetery as far as I could see.

Geoff Walden

[Adam Carr]

Did Ihoyos take the photo him/herself?

[Adam Carr]

OK, I have just been back to the Invalidenfriedhof (on the day I was going to rest my feet!), and I can report there is no Fritz Todt grave marker in the spot indicated by Ihoyos's photo. Someone has mocked up a dummy grave marker and photographed it on the spot, then taken it away.

Here is my photo from this afternoon:
http://www.adam-carr.net/photofolder200 ... 000729.JPG
(Sorry it's a very big photo - I'm in an internet cafe and I can't reduce it.)

[Axmann]

The upper photo is at least many months old - the trees and leaves are of summer, not this cold time of year.

I agree this grave marker is false - the lettering used is not of a period style, and if such a marker was erected today, one of the pity groups would have a tantrum.

[Geoff Walden]

Maybe this was a faked photo - I don't know. But there ARE modern grave markers that look just like that in the Invalidenfriedhof, and more are added periodically by the group that maintains this historic cemetery. There remain many graves there of pre-Nazi military and civilian notables that are not marked, because their markers disappeared after 1945. Much of the cemetery was cleared when the Berlin Wall was put right through it.

Geoff Walden

[friend_of_Obersalzberg]

Ilsebill Todt, the daughter of Dr. Todt, is "fighting" since 1992 for a grave marker for her father. The "Bezirksamt" didn´t allow it and Ilsebill made appeal to a court. It seems, the Bezirksamt made a turnaround and allow it, because "Dr. Todt was posthumous denazified by the Allies" and so they have no base, to make trouble.....
I have written to that "Förderverein Invalidenfriedhof" and entreat informations about the status quo. Be patient.....

Greetings

Ralf

[Adam Carr]

Yes, Axmann, no doubt "one of the pity groups would have a tantrum", since Todt was as guilty as Sauckel and Speer of exploiting slave labour in armaments factories, and might well have shared Sauckel's fate if he had lived to stand trial at Nuremberg.

[ihoyos]

I dont know, whats is the official politic in Germany about this issues.
But, looks to me not to much fair.
Leaders guilty in Nuremberg like Jodl, and Ribbentrop[, have grave markers ( may be others too). ( no bodies of course)
Leaders like Hess a Shirac, have beutiful grave sites.
but Horst Wessel, who was only a a street tug ( not single one crime proved), grave as you know the condition.
About Fritz Todt, the original maker in Berlin Invalidenfriedhoff, was moved to Berchtesgaden cemetery.
The only pattern I see in this, is that before the fall of Berlin wall. In the west the authorities were more tolerant than the reds.

[Adam Carr]

I doubt there is an official German government position on this. Obviously the government hasn't prevented Hess's grave or the memorials to Ribbentrop and Jodl you mention. But I suspect there is a particular issue with the Invalidenfriedhof, because it is a very old cemetery containing the graves of national heroes like Scharnhorst. The idea of prominent Nazis in this cemetery is thus less acceptable than it might be elsewhere. (And Todt was a prominent Nazi - he joined the NSDAP in 1922 and was very close to Hitler, although they quarrelled just before Todt's death. He cannot be retrospectively be de-Nazified.)

Ihoyos, I still want to know where you got that photo from.

[Axmann]

Perhaps this modern marker was there for a short time such as one or two days before any group became upset and removed it without media fanfare? I do not know if anyone monitors every development in this cemetery - I have been there only once or twice, and scared to walk near the grave of Heydrich as something could come from the ground as in a horror movie

Some of the selfrighteous cries from those of the British empire ought to be lessened, it is hypocritical. Your own men who create death and pain have their graves. This is simple victors justice.

[ihoyos]

The photo with maker over Fritz Todt gravesite, circuated by internet 2 years ago. I kept in my photos folder. I founded in randomic search. I dont know for how long that marker was in place.
But me real opinion about this issues ( graves, memorials, etc etc) still the same.
" THE PUNISMENT END WITH THE DEAD"

[Adam Carr]

I don't come here to argue with Nazi apologists, so I won't pursue this debate further. We have established that there is no Fritz Todt grave marker at the Invalidenfriedhof, so this thread can now be ended.

[HaEn]

Spot right , Adam.
Both of you have made up their minds, and do not wish to be confused with possible facts.
So let's close this thing, and let mr Todt ( wherever he is) rest in pieces. (yes I know it's supposed to be peace.)
HN