Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

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Antikoerper
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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Antikoerper » 31 Jan 2010 12:16

Palaisfan,
palaisfan wrote: It sounds like that novel's greatest value lies in the epilogue. Is that something you could quote? (If says any more than what you paraphrased next, that is)
Well, actually there´s nothing further that would be helpful. In the story he often refers to the close arrangement, one scene mentiones the library and there´s another scene describing how Hitler is looking out of the window in his bedroom and is seeing the trees in the backyard. So nothing important, really.
Regarding a further quotation: I´ve sold the book - may you can imagine why. :D
palaisfan wrote:
A further indicator is apparently the American soldiers billeting there in May 1945 had the bedroom's identified, and since Hitler kept Geli Raubal's room "frozen in time" it may be possible to match the photo of some items with the text descriptions in Sigmund's book.
There´s also a very interesting point in Sigmunds book, that tries to end the speculations on the death cult around Geli. It was often said, that nobody but Hitler and Frau Winter were allowed to go into the room, but actually when Henriette Hoffmann married Baldur von Schirach (the marriage took place in Hitlers apartment), she was allowed to change her clothes in Gelis room. And how Sigmund says, this marriage had to be shortly after Gelis death.
Regarding the LIFE photos: I would say that the "Schlafsofa" - a couch where you can also sleep on - is the key to our little riddle. This picture, where the soldier is on the bed and what is titled as Hitlers bedroom, should actually be Gelis room. This object doesn´t look like a "normal" bed, but more like a sofa.
palaisfan wrote:On a related note, I might cite a supporting analogy: Hitler and Eva shared a very similar adjoining bathroom and bed arrangement after Troost refurbished the Old Reich Chancellery. Its also found at the Berghof. It is not unlikely it was a pattern preferred by Hitler. (Incidentally, does Sigmund's book discuss Chancellery visits in any detail?).
This is a very interesting detail. But I´d think, it would be too much offtopic, if I start to speculate about the relationship between Geli and Hitler, regarding the arrangement of his rooms, that he shared with his "mistress"... :D
I´m not trough the book at the moment, maybe there´ll be further information, but it mainly deals with Gelis lifetime, so it seems rather unlikely.

While you started to identify Hitlers libraries: Here´s a picture what is from the Hoffmann collection, and the subtitle said, that it was taken at the Berghof. Unfortunately very small, but you are able to see the book shelfs. As far as I know, Hitler kept most of his private books at the Berghof. So, your first picture seems to be from Nr. 16.
1352.JPG
Oberhessin,
Oberhessin wrote:
The sovalled "Geli-Room" is no room in the corner. And it is to small for the obove mentioned "Bauernmöbel", or it will have consisted only of furniture.
This is, what bothers me most. Even if you could say, the shape of Gelis room could be somewhat like a corner room. And there´s another thing in the book, that made me wonder (I´ll post the quote later, my time is running out ;) ): in the chapter on Gelis suicide, one of the whitnesses says something about a window, that was angled to the Prinzregentenplatz and not to the backyard. I don´t have the exact wording on my mind, I´ll take a look, when I´ve got time again.

- Antikoerper
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"Wer aber vor der Vergangenheit die Augen verschließt, wird blind für die Gegenwart."
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Oberhessin
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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Oberhessin » 31 Jan 2010 13:22

Antikoerper, thats quite a good point!
Room in the Corner and window in direction to the Prinzregentenplace would give us a hint, which room Gelis really was: the right one of the Number 4.

Think about the following issue: Geli did not live with her uncle to avoid gossip, but was the "untermieter" of Maria Reichert. Why should they avoid gossip if on the other hand Geli lives in a room, which would usually belang to a wife or a mistress? We are in the 19Twenties, and everybody would think of Geli as a mistress.

When I saw the rooms, I was wondering about the size of the servants rooms. Especially in comparison to the two bedrooms.

Does somebody has a copy of the polices enquiry? If the housekeeper heard the shot, the door was locked or closed (?), the she could have opened the room going into the bathroom. Or is there a hint, that both doors where closed?

As for the suicide, I had a long discussion with Peter Longerich, who was also present at this day. He will offer a new explanation of the Geli case in his forthcoming book about Goebbels.

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Antikoerper » 31 Jan 2010 20:58

Here is the quote regarding the window. When reading this passage again, I´ve found some very interesting points of the report that was made for the Bavarian Ministry of the Interior. They are all from the chapter "Das muss MIR passieren - Der Selbstmord im Hause Hitler".
[...]Fest steht nur, dass die Winters damals bereits über eine eigene Wohnung verfügt haben und nach Abschluss ihrer Tätigkeit nach Hause gegangen sind[...] Geli blieb mit der am Ende der Zimmerflucht einquartierten Frau Reichert allein zurück.[...]
[...]Vom ersten Lokalaugenschein gibt es eine Aktennotiz, in der es heißt: "Die Leiche lag in dem Zimmer, das nur einen Eingang und Fenster zum Prinzregentenplatz hat[...]
So the Winters had their own flat at this time and always went home about 5 o´clock, Geli and Frau Reichert were alone on this day, and as far as possible away from each other (one in the one end of the apartment, one in the other end). And then there´s this very important passage of the report, where is clearly said, that the room where Gelis corpse was found, only had ONE door and a window to Prinzregentenplatz. Additional all the whitnesses are talking of a double door that led to her room, maybe this could be a hint for those who visited Nr. 16 in nowadays, to identify which room really was Geli´s.
"Wer aber vor der Vergangenheit die Augen verschließt, wird blind für die Gegenwart."
R. von Weizsäcker

Oberhessin
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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Oberhessin » 31 Jan 2010 21:11

Antikoerper, I just read the passages in the Maurice-Book too.
The Geli-Room must have been the room on the right of the Number 4s.
Unfortunately I have not noticed, which kind of door I saw in this room.
But I have promised a copy of the Maurice book to the police officer who was in care of us - I will ask him.

The other geli room could have been a wardrobe, in which they put all the belongings of Geli later.

wstb1958
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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by wstb1958 » 23 Mar 2010 19:18

Hi ,
I was in his appartment but I was not alowed to take pictures inside....

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Antikoerper » 05 Apr 2010 18:04

Last saturday there was a long Spiegel TV documentary about Hitlers life, and they showed a quite long scene from the flat, how it is inside, an officer led trough it. If anyone is interested, I could cut the clip and upload it to rapidshare or similar filesharing portals.
"Wer aber vor der Vergangenheit die Augen verschließt, wird blind für die Gegenwart."
R. von Weizsäcker

Ernie Primeau
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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Ernie Primeau » 06 Apr 2010 18:24

Antikoerper wrote:Last saturday there was a long Spiegel TV documentary about Hitlers life, and they showed a quite long scene from the flat, how it is inside, an officer led trough it. If anyone is interested, I could cut the clip and upload it to rapidshare or similar filesharing portals.
Yes, please do Antikoerper. That would be most interesting! :D

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Antikoerper » 07 Apr 2010 11:41

After watching it again, I´ve noticed some things that are totally different to those, which we mentioned. Here, the officer tells the version of the two bedrooms with the bath used together and shows the place, where Geli shot herself, but this is in a corner of the living room - so, may its the best, you just watch it to get an impression how the apartment is inside ;) Another thing: he has a very typical bavarian accent, I´ll think about creating a subtitle for the english-speaking users, who are the biggest group :)

Here it is, but please threat it with respect, I don´t really know what is about copyright, and so on...:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-241 ... z.mp4.html
"Wer aber vor der Vergangenheit die Augen verschließt, wird blind für die Gegenwart."
R. von Weizsäcker

Ernie Primeau
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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Ernie Primeau » 07 Apr 2010 19:07

Many thanks!

Downloading now...

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by SteveFBS » 07 Apr 2010 23:17

Antikoerper wrote:After watching it again, I´ve noticed some things that are totally different to those, which we mentioned. Here, the officer tells the version of the two bedrooms with the bath used together and shows the place, where Geli shot herself, but this is in a corner of the living room - so, may its the best, you just watch it to get an impression how the apartment is inside ;) Another thing: he has a very typical bavarian accent, I´ll think about creating a subtitle for the english-speaking users, who are the biggest group :)

Here it is, but please threat it with respect, I don´t really know what is about copyright, and so on...:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-241 ... z.mp4.html
Thanks so much! I downloaded it and watched this morning. Very interesting to see the inside of Herr Hitler's private residence...even if it's empty of its original furnishings.

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by giantpanda » 28 Sep 2010 16:24

An austrian author who wrote a fictional book about Geli and her uncle ( I would recommend, not to read it - biggest mispurchase of my life - more pornographic than anything else), visited the flat with Lothar Machtan (you may know him for his famous believe in Hitlers homosexuality and the book about it), and he writes about the arrangement of the flat in the epilog.


Hi Antikoerper, (or whoever else knows) what is the name of the austrian author and the book that contains the elipogue? There are a number of novels about Geli and Hitler and just wondered which one you were refering to.

Also Geli - in another thread you mentioned that you had visited the apartment in Prinzregentenplatz 16 and had got a floorplan while you were there. I'm not sure if you meant you drew something while visiting or if it was a printed document showing the layout. Are you able to scan and post whatever floorplan you have? I know someone else has posted a drawing and it could be interesting to have your input.

Thanks,

Panda

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Geli » 02 Oct 2010 03:25

giantpanda wrote:Also Geli - in another thread you mentioned that you had visited the apartment in Prinzregentenplatz 16 and had got a floorplan while you were there. I'm not sure if you meant you drew something while visiting or if it was a printed document showing the layout. Are you able to scan and post whatever floorplan you have? I know someone else has posted a drawing and it could be interesting to have your input.
Hello Giant Panda and Everyone Else,
Sorry I haven't been able to add to our discussion for a long time. I've been too busy to delve back into my old records of the apartment. I was given a copy of a floor plan that the police had in their file about the building. Sorry, I don't have a working scanner right now.
"Geli"

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by giantpanda » 27 Oct 2010 15:17

Antikoerper wrote:After watching it again, I´ve noticed some things that are totally different to those, which we mentioned. Here, the officer tells the version of the two bedrooms with the bath used together and shows the place, where Geli shot herself, but this is in a corner of the living room - so, may its the best, you just watch it to get an impression how the apartment is inside ;) Another thing: he has a very typical bavarian accent, I´ll think about creating a subtitle for the english-speaking users, who are the biggest group :)

Here it is, but please threat it with respect, I don´t really know what is about copyright, and so on...:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-241 ... z.mp4.html

I tried to watch this but it says it's been taken down. Can you post it again? Or if not do you remember the name of the Spiegel documentary? I'd love to see it...

Panda

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Binford » 25 Mar 2011 16:35

My uncle, Charles R Binford of Indianapolis and a member of the 179th Regiment, 45th Division, resided in the apartment at Prinzrgentenplatz, arriving there on April 30. Perhaps he has been discussed elsewhere in this forum since he is pictured and identified, together with two other soldiers, in a photo on the front page of the May 13, 1945 issue of the 45th Division News, sitting in the living room of the apartment. He also was identified in several news wire stories published in May or June 1945. Binford, who was a commercial artist, became assistant editor of the regimental newsletter published on Hitler's printing press located in the building. He said that Anni Winter was extremely helpful. Uncle Chuck stayed in what was known as "Geli Raubal's room."

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Re: Hitlers flat: Prinzregentenplatz 16

Post by Geli » 30 Mar 2011 20:18

Is your uncle still alive? It would be interesting to get his comments on our disscussion. Do you remember him telling you anything more about the apartment or the Winters? Does he have any personal photos taken inside the apartment?

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