Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

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Paulheald
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Paulheald » 13 Apr 2015 09:34

Thanks, Geoff, once again. Your knowledge on these matters is absolutely amazing. I will browse the Holocaust section and see if I can find a relevant thread and re-post this question and your answer. However, just for the record I attach a pic with the area of my interest indicated.
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Geoff Walden » 13 Apr 2015 13:08

That's it, Paul - that potato warehouse. You can see the ruin clearly on Google Maps.

There was another, much larger, potato/vegetable warehouse facility over by the freight rail lines, and it also exists in ruins. The beginning of this building shows on this aerial photo, just above the G in the 23 AUG 44 label on the right. The whole building was about 5 times as long as what shows in the photo. The small building just to the upper left of the potato building, and perpendicular to it, was a "Krautsilo" and is also a ruin today.

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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Paulheald » 14 Apr 2015 07:16

Thanks Geoff - I have moved this posting to the Holocaust section as a new thread "Auschwitz Birkenau" - Thanks for all your invaluable help. Now we can get back to the Party Rally Grounds Nuremberg.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Geoff Walden » 14 Apr 2015 10:34

Oops, I forgot I had started this thread (Greg Singh reminded us).

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&t=211903

Of course, this thread was not intended to include Birkenau remains inside the camp, just Auschwitz remains outside the museum areas. Which was what we ended up discussing here, after all. :)

Geoff

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Geoff Walden
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Tour of the Zeppelintribüne

Post by Geoff Walden » 15 Apr 2015 18:26

For anyone (besides me) :milwink: who may be in the Nürnberg area this Saturday, 18 April, there will be special guided tours inside the Zeppelintribüne. Such open-house tours are very rare these days, and this may be the last time the Zeppelintribüne interior is open to the public for several years, due to the soon-to-start preservation work.

Geoff

http://www.museen.nuernberg.de/dokuzent ... f63acbaed/

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Geoff Walden » 26 Apr 2015 18:14

Some pics from the tour. The emphasis was on the test sites to see what would work to halt the rampant deterioration of the structures. They have dug out the grass and earth from around a couple of the seating areas, and they have put down drainage systems and sealing sheets. Then they will try to put things back to appear the way they were originally (before the repair). They have also installed several of these huge galvanized screws at one part of the seating area. They didn't explain what this was for.
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*NL*
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by *NL* » 26 Apr 2015 22:48

Awesome picture update Geoff, i was going over my images and noticed that it is already 2 years ago that i was here for the last time. I see that i have missed out on some great restorations. Those screws are h u g e , never seen those before. Thanks for the update.

Hans.

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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Mannheim » 28 Apr 2015 23:44

The same part of the grounds had been dug up when I was there in 2010 but when I returned in 2012 all was back as it had been. Exploratory digging perhaps?
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N.C. Wyeth
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by N.C. Wyeth » 30 Apr 2015 02:16

Geoff Walden wrote:Some pics from the tour. The emphasis was on the test sites to see what would work to halt the rampant deterioration of the structures. They have dug out the grass and earth from around a couple of the seating areas, and they have put down drainage systems and sealing sheets. Then they will try to put things back to appear the way they were originally (before the repair). They have also installed several of these huge galvanized screws at one part of the seating area. They didn't explain what this was for.
Those are earth screw anchors, Geoff . . . sometimes referred to as "Pole Anchors" or "Rock Socket Screws" - we use them often, where underground faults develop under existing building structures. When we were together at the site a couple of years ago, I could tell that most of the ground in that area is shifting . . . and if you look closely, you can see this across the horizon, when you look across the top of the seating structures - the top level of the structures "dip and sag" in various locations . . . and in a few of these locations, the seating tiers are "tipping forward" as well. Some of my photographs from that visit show this - to some degree. I think these screws are being installed as a test to see if they can help secure the ground below, and slow down some of the forward erosion that is occurring - and it tells me, someone has spent time doing some serious geotechnical study of the site. I think that is good news - to me, it says there is a will out there to go the extra distance to study [and perhaps, spend the money on] what will best keep the site intact over the future years to come. We can only hope . . .

postscript: My other thought, is that these will be used for an elevated structure of some type - maybe a walkway structure, suspended over the existing stairwell. Perhaps something that will allow people to walk on the site, without further damaging what is underneath one's footsteps. I have seen these used in this fashion as well.
"Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I may not remember. Involve me and I'll understand." ~ Native American wisdom

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Geoff Walden » 01 May 2015 09:55

Thanks very much for the great insights, Brad! My fellow tour participants and I had no idea what those screws were for ... we just laughed at the size. It could be either explanation, I guess. Maybe they are meant to anchor that subsiding ground, and they just weren't put in all the way yet, or maybe just put in that one area as a test, not permanent. Or maybe they also have plans for some elevated walkway. I know they have been talking about the possible need to erect a covering over the side wings of the Zeppelintribuene, once they have them stabilized and dried out. I don't know if they plan anything like that for the seating areas. In an open air place like that, it seems they could only do so much to keep the rain out. But at least they are working on it.

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N.C. Wyeth
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by N.C. Wyeth » 01 May 2015 19:54

My bet - based on past experience with our fellow German friends :wink: - is that they'll be used for something like this:
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Geoff Walden » 19 Oct 2015 15:55

During a 2-day symposium this past weekend, on the future of the Nazi Party Rally Grounds in Nürnberg, historians and preservationists recommended that the annual "Norisring" auto race and "Rock im Park" concert no longer be held at the Zeppelinfeld, due to ongoing damage to the historic structures there.

http://www.nordbayern.de/region/nuernbe ... -1.4727255

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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Mannheim » 20 Oct 2015 18:36

I was at the rally grounds today. The area in front of the tribune is marked out for the soon-to-be-cancelled race. I was standing on the right-hand side of the assembly area - opposite side to where Geoff saw the giant screws when a bunch of workmen started cutting back the undergrowth. Using brushcutters within half an hour they had cleared a substantial area so I assume they are getting the area ready for something. More exploratory digging and screwing perhaps?
On a side note, there is currently an exhibition in Berlin in the former Propaganda Ministry building called "In die Zukunft Gedacht". I was in there two days ago. The exhibition is not bad, almost exclusively documentation, but you can once again get inside (part of) the building if you are prepared to weather the steely glares of the attendants who give the distinct impression they would much prefer it if nobody came to their free exhibition.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Geoff Walden » 20 Oct 2015 19:05

Mannheim wrote:I was at the rally grounds today. The area in front of the tribune is marked out for the soon-to-be-cancelled race. I was standing on the right-hand side of the assembly area - opposite side to where Geoff saw the giant screws when a bunch of workmen started cutting back the undergrowth. Using brushcutters within half an hour they had cleared a substantial area so I assume they are getting the area ready for something. More exploratory digging and screwing perhaps?
Yesterday, after the statements from the weekend symposium came out, the mayor of Nürnberg emphasized that there is no way that the race or rock concert will leave Nürnberg (he didn't say whether they would find different venues for these events). It's a money thing - both events bring a lot of money to the city.

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Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

Post by Mannheim » 21 Oct 2015 07:35

I also noticed yesterday that some of the walls supporting the whole tribune area, not just the tribune itself have been reinforced with steel rods (near the sign about the US 3rd and 45th(?) divisions). This I think is a good sign. I wasn't so happy to learn at the Kongresshalle yesterday that the powers that be had cut through the stonework to build the entrance to the Documentation centre. Surely a door would have sufficed.

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