Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

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George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#451

Post by George L Gregory » 15 Jan 2021, 21:14

ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 20:41
Darwin "''The civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world . ''
(Social ) Darwinism , Eugenics and Communism are the scientific foundation of racism and were enthusiastically adopted
by the Nazis .
They all start from the ''point '' that there are civilised and savage races, and that the mission of the civilised races was to exterminate and replace the savage races,and that there were in the civilised races a lot of inferior people who had not the right to breed and should thus disappear .
It was Stalin ( who said that he was a Marxist ) who said that Communism was scientific socialism .
Racism was as strong in the USSR as in the USA and as in Cuba : the racist statements from Castro and Che Guevara are well known,but hidden by the Marxist media .
Ah, the typical post taking Darwin’s quote out of context. He made a prediction and the full quote is:

“The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies, which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, from general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution. Breaks often occur in all parts of the series, some being wide, sharp and defined, others less so in various degrees; as between the orang and its nearest allies—between the Tarsius and the other Lemuridae between the elephant, and in a more striking manner between the Ornithorhynchus or Echidna, and all other mammals. But these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”

Also, he wrote:

“There is, however, no doubt that the various races, when carefully compared and measured, differ much from each other,—as in the texture of the hair, the relative proportions of all parts of the body,2 the capacity of the lungs, the form and capacity of the skull, and even in the convolutions of the brain.3 But it would be an endless task to specify the numerous points of structural difference. The races differ also in constitution, in acclimatisation, and in liability to certain diseases. Their mental characteristics are likewise very distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional, but partly in their intellectual, faculties. Every one who has had the opportunity of comparison, must have been struck with the contrast between the taciturn, even morose, aborigines of S. America and the light-hearted, talkative negroes. There is a nearly similar contrast between the Malays and the Papuans,4 who live under the same physical conditions, and are separated from each other only by a narrow space of sea.”

“It may be doubted whether any character can be named which is distinctive of a race and is constant.”

Just so you know, Darwin used the term “races” interchangeably with “varieties” and “species”.

Darwin was was strongly against slavery, against "ranking the so-called races of man as distinct species", and against ill-treatment of native people.

Actually it was Pierre-Joseph Proudhon who coined the term ‘scientific socialism’ and it was Friedrich Engels who described Marxism as scientific socialism explicitly in his book Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

I don’t care what Stalin called himself. Stalin was not a Marxist and his dictatorship of the Soviet Union was not Marxist.

Was Hitler a socialist? :lol:
Last edited by George L Gregory on 15 Jan 2021, 22:01, edited 2 times in total.

George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#452

Post by George L Gregory » 15 Jan 2021, 21:17

ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 21:00
George L Gregory wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 19:44
ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 18:50
It is not on western cultural Marxist historians to decide 50 years after the war,what was fascism, nazism,communism .
Julian Huxley was a Marxist and eugenicist and opposed openly the notion of democracy .
Provide a source that Julian Huxley was a Marxist.

The following may be of interest to you:

“Huxley, who had twice visited the Soviet Union, was originally not anti-communist, but the ruthless adoption of Lysenkoism by Joseph Stalin ended his tolerant attitude.”

“In his essay The Crowded World Huxley was openly critical of Communist and Catholic attitudes to birth control, population control and overpopulation.”
A man who was allowed to visit the USSR before WWII ,was a communist,that he later disagreed with the theories of Lysenko,does not make him an anti-communist .
Did he condemn Budapest 1956,the Great lead Forward,the Killing Fields, the Gulag ,etc,etc....?
Did he disapprove the eugenistic measures from the Chinese communists ?
Huxley wasn’t at first critical of communist, that is not the same as your claim that he was a Marxist.

You love making up wild claims without any evidence.

Also, what is the “Marxist media”? Go ahead and elaborate on what conspiracy theory you have in mind.

I must state that you aren’t doing yourself any favours. I’m not sure about Sid, but I’m getting a bit sick and tired of you.


George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#453

Post by George L Gregory » 15 Jan 2021, 21:20

ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 21:09
Sid Guttridge wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 20:58
Hi ljadw,

You post, ".....the racist statements from Castro and Che Guevara are well known, but hidden by the Marxist media."

So, not so well hidden by the Marxist media, then!

Cheers,

Sid.
Yes : they were hidden by the Marxist media, but the truth still leaked out .
The Marxist media in the west have made of Che Guevara a hero, while they were hiding his racist statements : the Guardian, the Independent, Le Monde, the New York Times presented him to the youth as an example to follow,but hided his racist statements .
When Marco Rubio gave an example of the racism of Che Guevara, Politifact ( we know who funds Politifact ) was excusing Che and labeled the words of Rubio as mostly false .
Take your “Marxist media” conspiracy theory nonsense elsewhere.

You don’t even know any thing about Marxism so stop using the term. :lol:

ljadw
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#454

Post by ljadw » 15 Jan 2021, 22:23

Your Marxist propaganda will not convince many people .
We know what the result is of Marxism : countless millions of deaths .Nothing more .
It is very obvious why you deny that Stalin was a Marxist : it is to convince people that Marxism has nothing to do with the Gulag and with Stalin's racism .

ljadw
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#455

Post by ljadw » 15 Jan 2021, 22:32

George L Gregory wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 21:14
ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 20:41
Darwin "''The civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world . ''
(Social ) Darwinism , Eugenics and Communism are the scientific foundation of racism and were enthusiastically adopted
by the Nazis .
They all start from the ''point '' that there are civilised and savage races, and that the mission of the civilised races was to exterminate and replace the savage races,and that there were in the civilised races a lot of inferior people who had not the right to breed and should thus disappear .
It was Stalin ( who said that he was a Marxist ) who said that Communism was scientific socialism .
Racism was as strong in the USSR as in the USA and as in Cuba : the racist statements from Castro and Che Guevara are well known,but hidden by the Marxist media .
Ah, the typical post taking Darwin’s quote out of context. He made a prediction and the full quote is:

“The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies, which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, from general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution. Breaks often occur in all parts of the series, some being wide, sharp and defined, others less so in various degrees; as between the orang and its nearest allies—between the Tarsius and the other Lemuridae between the elephant, and in a more striking manner between the Ornithorhynchus or Echidna, and all other mammals. But these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”

Also, he wrote:

“There is, however, no doubt that the various races, when carefully compared and measured, differ much from each other,—as in the texture of the hair, the relative proportions of all parts of the body,2 the capacity of the lungs, the form and capacity of the skull, and even in the convolutions of the brain.3 But it would be an endless task to specify the numerous points of structural difference. The races differ also in constitution, in acclimatisation, and in liability to certain diseases. Their mental characteristics are likewise very distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional, but partly in their intellectual, faculties. Every one who has had the opportunity of comparison, must have been struck with the contrast between the taciturn, even morose, aborigines of S. America and the light-hearted, talkative negroes. There is a nearly similar contrast between the Malays and the Papuans,4 who live under the same physical conditions, and are separated from each other only by a narrow space of sea.”

“It may be doubted whether any character can be named which is distinctive of a race and is constant.”

Just so you know, Darwin used the term “races” interchangeably with “varieties” and “species”.

Darwin was was strongly against slavery, against "ranking the so-called races of man as distinct species", and against ill-treatment of native people.

Actually it was Pierre-Joseph Proudhon who coined the term ‘scientific socialism’ and it was Friedrich Engels who described Marxism as scientific socialism explicitly in his book Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

I don’t care what Stalin called himself. Stalin was not a Marxist and his dictatorship of the Soviet Union was not Marxist.

Was Hitler a socialist? :lol:
Hitler was a socialist and a nationalist .

George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#456

Post by George L Gregory » 15 Jan 2021, 22:34

ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 22:23
Your Marxist propaganda will not convince many people .
We know what the result is of Marxism : countless millions of deaths .Nothing more .
It is very obvious why you deny that Stalin was a Marxist : it is to convince people that Marxism has nothing to do with the Gulag and with Stalin's racism .
:lol:

Was Hitler a socialist? He called himself one. We’ll apply what you do to Stalin to Hitler.

What policies did Stalin carry out that were Marxist? Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself.

You don’t know any thing about Marxism and you’ve resorted to posting “Marxist media” nonsense. It’s time for you to start posting more serious posts and not utter nonsense if you want to be taken seriously in the future!

George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#457

Post by George L Gregory » 15 Jan 2021, 22:36

ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 22:32
Hitler was a socialist and a nationalist .
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Please do explain why he was a socialist!

This should be fun...

GoeringsPetLion
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#458

Post by GoeringsPetLion » 15 Jan 2021, 23:35

Lina Heydrich said, "National Socialism is today considered basically just as a political issue, and it was, after all, contrary to Fascism, a worldview, a faith." (https://youtu.be/Qb3fufsgDYY?t=104)

I don't know in how far Italian Fascism was a faith. Hitler saw himself as chosen by providence (Vorsehung), maybe already since he went with Kubizek to the Freinberg after listening to Wagner's Rienzi. At the Reichsparteitag in 1934, he said, "Something does not develop from nothing if this development is not based on a greater command. And it was no earthly superior who gave us that command. It was given to us by the God who created our volk." In Mein Kampf, he wrote, "Anyone who speaks of a mission of the German volk on earth must know that it can consist only in the formation of a state which sees its highest task in the preservation and promotion of the most noble elements of our folkdom, indeed, of all mankind, which have remained unharmed."
Last edited by GoeringsPetLion on 16 Jan 2021, 01:34, edited 1 time in total.

George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#459

Post by George L Gregory » 16 Jan 2021, 00:41

Hi GoeringsPetLion,

Well Mussolini said that fascism wasn’t for export and Goebbels said that National Socialism wasn’t for export.

But, we both know that in practice both things did become exported. Fascism was put into practice in other countries such as Germany, Romania, etc. National Socialism gained popularity in America, Britain, etc.

Even today there are some people in the world who are self-proclaimed “National Socialists” who think it’s a lovely ideology and is misunderstood and what happened during the Third Reich was not really National Socialism. The same goes for self-proclaimed “Fascists” who claim that what happened in Italy, especially after Mussolini allied with Hitler, was not a real reflection of Fascism.

ljadw
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#460

Post by ljadw » 16 Jan 2021, 09:09

George L Gregory wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 22:34
ljadw wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 22:23
Your Marxist propaganda will not convince many people .
We know what the result is of Marxism : countless millions of deaths .Nothing more .
It is very obvious why you deny that Stalin was a Marxist : it is to convince people that Marxism has nothing to do with the Gulag and with Stalin's racism .
:lol:

Was Hitler a socialist? He called himself one. We’ll apply what you do to Stalin to Hitler.

What policies did Stalin carry out that were Marxist? Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself.

You don’t know any thing about Marxism and you’ve resorted to posting “Marxist media” nonsense. It’s time for you to start posting more serious posts and not utter nonsense if you want to be taken seriously in the future!
Marxist Media : in 2018 (Marx was born in 1818) , one could read in the New York Times : Happy Birthday Karl Marx ,you were right and the German Socialist President Steinmeyer praised Marx openly,while the German media remained silent and did not attack Steinmeyer. This Marxist is still president of Germany . Juncker did the same .
How long would a German president remain president if in 2089 he praised Hitler .Both Marx and Hitler are mass murders .
And the reality is that the present German president said 3 years ago that the mass murderer Marx was one of the great German thinkers . And no one attacked the German president,which proves the domination of cultural Marxism in the Western world .

gebhk
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#461

Post by gebhk » 16 Jan 2021, 11:04

The same goes for self-proclaimed “Fascists” who claim that what happened in Italy, especially after Mussolini allied with Hitler, was not a real reflection of Fascism.
And, to be fair, the same goes for self proclaimed 'Marxists' who claim that what happened in Russia, especially with Stalin, was not a real reflection of Marxism.

gebhk
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#462

Post by gebhk » 16 Jan 2021, 11:25

Both Marx and Hitler are mass murders
.
Actually, neither of them was unless you have some evidence I haven't heard of. At best you could claim Hitler was legally one by virtue of involvement in joint criminal enterprise. I am not aware of Marx having killed anyone let alone three people or more.

George L Gregory
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#463

Post by George L Gregory » 16 Jan 2021, 12:16

gebhk wrote:
16 Jan 2021, 11:04
The same goes for self-proclaimed “Fascists” who claim that what happened in Italy, especially after Mussolini allied with Hitler, was not a real reflection of Fascism.
And, to be fair, the same goes for self proclaimed 'Marxists' who claim that what happened in Russia, especially with Stalin, was not a real reflection of Marxism.
What policies did Stalin do that were in any way Marxist?

ljadw
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#464

Post by ljadw » 16 Jan 2021, 12:25

George L Gregory wrote:
16 Jan 2021, 12:16
gebhk wrote:
16 Jan 2021, 11:04
The same goes for self-proclaimed “Fascists” who claim that what happened in Italy, especially after Mussolini allied with Hitler, was not a real reflection of Fascism.
And, to be fair, the same goes for self proclaimed 'Marxists' who claim that what happened in Russia, especially with Stalin, was not a real reflection of Marxism.
What policies did Stalin do that were in any way Marxist?
Stalin did what Marx said that should be done .
Marx said that if the ''oppressed '' classes exterminated those who ''oppressed '' them ,there would be a better world .
PS : Marx belonged to and lived as the ''oppressors ''.
Stalin ordered to kill all those he considered as belonging to the oppressors ( millions) and millions were killed .
Marx is as responsible for the Gulag as Stalin, for the Killing Fields as Pol Pot,for the Great Leap forward as Mao, etc...
And, not only was what Marx proposed a crime, he also failed .Only a few imbecile Western ''intellectuals '' in the US (The Ivy League ) and in Western Europe still stick to Marxism .

ljadw
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Re: Why didn't Hitler advocate Austrian nationalist ideas?

#465

Post by ljadw » 16 Jan 2021, 12:28

gebhk wrote:
16 Jan 2021, 11:25
Both Marx and Hitler are mass murders
.
Actually, neither of them was unless you have some evidence I haven't heard of. At best you could claim Hitler was legally one by virtue of involvement in joint criminal enterprise. I am not aware of Marx having killed anyone let alone three people or more.
Hitler ordered to kill millions of Jews and other Untermenschen who had no right to live in the ideal eugenics world .
Marx exhorted to kill everyone he said was an oppressor .
Both are responsibles for dozens of millions of deaths .

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