Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 29 Mar 2021 06:58

Hi Topspeed

This is from a 1942 Nazi propaganda leaflet entitled "Der Untermensch"

"On the infinite a steppes of Russian territory lay Eastern Europe. A sharp contrast is noticed when comparing central Europe with this enormous space. On both sides of the border is the same earth but not the same man.

It is the man who makes his mark on the landscape, while on the German side is planned orderly fields yielding abundant harvests; the other side is only impenetrable forests, vast and unkempt, miles of uninhabited steppes where even the rivers wind endlessly through the nothingness.

This poorly kept land which hides fertile soil could be a paradise for man, a potential "California of Europe" alive with fields and fruit, but instead it lies neglected and wasted, lost to the abyss of cultural nihilism.

This land cries out against the subhuman and his wasteful ways! This fertile black earth watered by burning tears, is only barely separated from the rest of Europe. However its Eastern European masters have not risen above their primitive ways.

The land sees only chaos and wastes because it is not cared for by true man, the bearer of high culture and genius, who would manage its development, and bring civilization to its soil instead of only cruel and endless war, and destruction.

Certainly, the developed nations of Central and Western Europe wanted to secure this land, it was their purpose. First there were the Goths and the Varangians, who based there empires in this territory and introduced culture. Then the Swedish, Flemish, the Dutch, Shwabs and Lower-Saxon settlers, attempted to bring light into the darkness. The cry for help sounded for centuries from these lands.

Even Peter the Great, Catherine II and all the rest called the German peasant and the German officer, a European scientist! A physician and engineer. But once again the forces of darkness, and the subhuman prevailed, the German spirit, which came to these lands to help, was brutally and senselessly destroyed.

The subhuman has challenged humanity, thus began the terrible invasion of Attila and Gengis Khan!

On their small ugly steppe horses, the subhuman hordes appearing as if they were part of the animal, growing out of its fur, descended onto Europe with their inhuman cry!

Their narrow eyes shone with excitement and the greedy bloodthirsty desire to reign down fire and destruction on all in their path
."

Cheers

Sid

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Topspeed
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Topspeed » 29 Mar 2021 07:25

Sid Guttridge wrote:
29 Mar 2021 06:58
Hi Topspeed

This is from a 1942 Nazi propaganda leaflet entitled "Der Untermensch"

"On the infinite a steppes of Russian territory lay Eastern Europe. A sharp contrast is noticed when comparing central Europe with this enormous space. On both sides of the border is the same earth but not the same man.

It is the man who makes his mark on the landscape, while on the German side is planned orderly fields yielding abundant harvests; the other side is only impenetrable forests, vast and unkempt, miles of uninhabited steppes where even the rivers wind endlessly through the nothingness.

This poorly kept land which hides fertile soil could be a paradise for man, a potential "California of Europe" alive with fields and fruit, but instead it lies neglected and wasted, lost to the abyss of cultural nihilism.

This land cries out against the subhuman and his wasteful ways! This fertile black earth watered by burning tears, is only barely separated from the rest of Europe. However its Eastern European masters have not risen above their primitive ways.

The land sees only chaos and wastes because it is not cared for by true man, the bearer of high culture and genius, who would manage its development, and bring civilization to its soil instead of only cruel and endless war, and destruction.

Certainly, the developed nations of Central and Western Europe wanted to secure this land, it was their purpose. First there were the Goths and the Varangians, who based there empires in this territory and introduced culture. Then the Swedish, Flemish, the Dutch, Shwabs and Lower-Saxon settlers, attempted to bring light into the darkness. The cry for help sounded for centuries from these lands.

Even Peter the Great, Catherine II and all the rest called the German peasant and the German officer, a European scientist! A physician and engineer. But once again the forces of darkness, and the subhuman prevailed, the German spirit, which came to these lands to help, was brutally and senselessly destroyed.

The subhuman has challenged humanity, thus began the terrible invasion of Attila and Gengis Khan!

On their small ugly steppe horses, the subhuman hordes appearing as if they were part of the animal, growing out of its fur, descended onto Europe with their inhuman cry!

Their narrow eyes shone with excitement and the greedy bloodthirsty desire to reign down fire and destruction on all in their path
."

Cheers

Sid
Okay...that leaves very little doubt.

Thanks...I never seen anything like that before.

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Topspeed
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Topspeed » 29 Mar 2021 07:37

Anything similar before 1939 ?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 29 Mar 2021 10:13

Hi Topspeed,

I imagine it would have been impolitic to be too vocal about it before 1939. Germany had concluded a non-aggression pact with Poland in 1934 and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with the USSR in 1939. Slovakia was also one of its satellites.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Topspeed » 29 Mar 2021 10:46

Yes Sid,

I quite agree.

rgds,

Juke

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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by George L Gregory » 29 Mar 2021 13:38

Topspeed wrote:
29 Mar 2021 10:46
Yes Sid,

I quite agree.

rgds,

Juke
Actually, the infamous pamphlet Der Untermensch (The Subhuman) does not mention Slavs as subhumans. In fact, the pamphlet refers to Croatians, Romanians and Slovaks as Aryans. The pamphlet was translated into many Slavic languages.

The pamphlet is not anti-Slavic, it is anti-Jewish and anti-Bolshevik.

If you want to know about the Nazis describing the Slavs as subhumans, a couple of examples are:

Heinrich Himmler in 1940 wrote a memorandum titled Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East:
The parents of such children of good blood will be given the choice to either give away their child; they will then probably produce no more children so that the danger of this subhuman people of the East [Untermenschenvolk des Ostens] obtaining class of leaders which, since it would be equal to us, would also be dangerous for us, will disappear--or else the parents pledge themselves to go to Germany and to become loyal citizens there. The love toward their child, whose future and education depends on the loyalty of the parents, will be a strong weapon in dealing with them.
Adolf Hitler read the memorandum and considered it to be “correct” and “very good”.

A propaganda leaflet in the later years of the war was issued to the Wehrmacht and slit stated that the “rule of Asiatic subhumans” over the people in the West was “unnatural” and contradicted history.

You can quite easily find certain Slavic ethnic groups e.g. Poles and Russians, being described as subhumans more so than say Czechs and Bulgarians.

ljadw
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by ljadw » 29 Mar 2021 15:54

Topspeed wrote:
29 Mar 2021 10:46
Yes Sid,

I quite agree.

rgds,

Juke
All this was nothing new : the word '' Untermensch''is a German translation of the American word Underman, first used in 1922 by Lothrop Stoddard ( from Massachusetts ),member of the KKK and partisan of Eugenics and ally of Margaret Sanger .

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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Topspeed » 29 Mar 2021 18:33

ljadw wrote:
29 Mar 2021 15:54
Topspeed wrote:
29 Mar 2021 10:46
Yes Sid,

I quite agree.

rgds,

Juke
All this was nothing new : the word '' Untermensch''is a German translation of the American word Underman, first used in 1922 by Lothrop Stoddard ( from Massachusetts ),member of the KKK and partisan of Eugenics and ally of Margaret Sanger .
Do you think there is a connection ?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 29 Mar 2021 19:19

It appears that the word "subhuman" in English predates the Nazis by over a hundred years.

Sid.

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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Topspeed » 30 Mar 2021 06:20

Was the coming USSR attack mantioned in Mein Kampf ?

ljadw
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by ljadw » 30 Mar 2021 07:16

Topspeed wrote:
29 Mar 2021 18:33
ljadw wrote:
29 Mar 2021 15:54
Topspeed wrote:
29 Mar 2021 10:46
Yes Sid,

I quite agree.

rgds,

Juke
All this was nothing new : the word '' Untermensch''is a German translation of the American word Underman, first used in 1922 by Lothrop Stoddard ( from Massachusetts ),member of the KKK and partisan of Eugenics and ally of Margaret Sanger .
Do you think there is a connection ?
Yes ,but it is not so that without the American connection,Nazism would not have existed .
A lot of the ideas of Nazism existed already before Hitler and outside Germany : Eugenics is one of them .
And a lot of the ideas of Nazism continued /continue to exist after 1945,inside and outside Germany :Eugenics is one of them .Planned Parenthood still exists .Compulsory sterilization continued after 1945, in Sweden and other countries .
The source of Nazism is the progress of science in the second half of the 19th century .

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 30 Mar 2021 07:17

Hi Topspeed,

Not explicitly, but it is implicit. For instance this from Chapter XIV::

"Therefore we National Socialists have purposely drawn a line through the
line of conduct followed by pre-War Germany in foreign policy. We put an
end to the perpetual Germanic march towards the South and West of Europe
and turn our eyes towards the lands of the East. We finally put a stop
to the colonial and trade policy of pre-War times and pass over to the
territorial policy of the future.

But when we speak of new territory in Europe to-day we must principally
think of Russia and the border States subject to her.


Destiny itself seems to wish to point out the way for us here. In
delivering Russia over to Bolshevism, Fate robbed the Russian people of
that intellectual class which had once created the Russian State and
were the guarantee of its existence. For the Russian State was not
organized by the constructive political talent of the Slav element in
Russia, but was much more a marvellous exemplification of the capacity
for State-building possessed by the Germanic element in a race of
inferior worth. Thus were many powerful Empires created all over the
earth. More often than once inferior races with Germanic organizers and
rulers as their leaders became formidable States and continued to exist
as long as the racial nucleus remained which had originally created each
respective State. For centuries Russia owed the source of its livelihood
as a State to the Germanic nucleus of its governing class. But this
nucleus is now almost wholly broken up and abolished. The Jew has taken
its place. Just as it is impossible for the Russian to shake off the
Jewish yoke by exerting his own powers, so, too, it is impossible for
the Jew to keep this formidable State in existence for any long period
of time. He himself is by no means an organizing element, but rather a
ferment of decomposition. This colossal Empire in the East is ripe for
dissolution. And the end of the Jewish domination in Russia will also be
the end of Russia as a State. We are chosen by Destiny to be the
witnesses of a catastrophe which will afford the strongest confirmation
of the nationalist theory of race."


Cheers,

Sid

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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 30 Mar 2021 07:22

Hiljadw,

You post, "The source of Nazism is the progress of science in the second half of the 19th century."

I would suggest rather that it is a result of the misapplication of the progress of science in the second half of the 19th century.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by gebhk » 30 Mar 2021 08:49

As a practitioner of the 'dark arts' of science, I find it bizarre how the term is abused. There was no 'progress of science in the second half of the 19th century' or any other. It makes as much sense to say 'the progress of boiling in the second half of the 19th century' when one means 'the progress of cuisine'. Science is a method of processing knowledge and information, nothing more - one of many. The proud announcement by some 'I am a scientist' is as bizarre as a chef announcing 'I am a boiler'. Yet others make a religion out of it (science, not boiling - though who knows?), ludicrously opposing it to other religions. You could with equal sense oppose sawing to cabinet making. Chemistry and physics are not 'sciences', they are subjects - studied and applied long before the scientific method was invented. Equally, the scientific method can be applied to history, just the same as it can be to biology or any other subject.

Of course there is progress in the techniques of scientific method, just as there has been progress in the techniques of steaming food. However, to blame ruddy Nouvelle Cuisine on the progress in steaming techniques, most folk would find nonsensical - so why do the same with science and political and/or social theory? As an aside, I would also say that just because you use some or even all the tools of scientific enquiry, it does not mean that you are using scientific method or make you a scientist. No more than using a cooker, water and a pot make what you do boiling food let alone make you a chef who is simmering soup.

Now that I've got that off my chest, I acknowledge we are straying off the topic. So - the only science I can see is that AH theorised that the Germans were superior to Slavic/Jewish Bolsheviks. He therefore hypothesized that his 'German' army would defeat the Soviet army and put it to the test. We know the result - which is not supportive of the theory. Pretty much where the science begins and ends in all of this.

ljadw
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

Post by ljadw » 30 Mar 2021 11:38

Sid Guttridge wrote:
30 Mar 2021 07:22
Hiljadw,

You post, "The source of Nazism is the progress of science in the second half of the 19th century."

I would suggest rather that it is a result of the misapplication of the progress of science in the second half of the 19th century.

Cheers,

Sid.
NO : it is both .
When Bernard Shaw proposed in 1910 ( Hitler was than 21 !) to kill those who were not useful for society with poison gas ,he did this
a because this method was possible
b because the dominating scientific ideology was that science had now made it possible to construct a perfect society,where there would be no place for those who were not mentally and physically perfect .
Nietzsche was talking about the Ubermensch, the ideal man .But the existence of the Ubermensch implied also the existence of the Untermensch,for whom there was no place on earth .
Scientists had now taken the place ,not only of the priests, but also of God and the meritocracy (the intellectuals ) ,in the US those who came from the Ivy League,in Germany, the new Gods: Herr Professor Doctor,, had arrogated to themselves the right and the duty to lead mankind to a perfect world .
Everything was now possible for man ,and those who opposed progress had to be crushed .
People with mental and physical deficiencies were an obstacle to progress and had to disappear .

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