Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

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George L Gregory
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#16

Post by George L Gregory » 07 Mar 2021, 00:27

Sid Guttridge wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 22:09
Hi GLG,

Nope, can't guess. I am just happy to accept our new found harmony here at face value!

Cheers,

Sid.
Well if you can't guess then you may want to try and get an appointment at your doctors because it's a sign that you're not firing on all cylinders. :D

Michael Kenny
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#17

Post by Michael Kenny » 07 Mar 2021, 00:56

George L Gregory wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 12:13


Now let's look at the casualties and losses:

Germany:
27,074 dead
111,034 wounded
18,384 missing
1,129 aircrew killed
1,236 aircraft lost
795–822 tanks lost
Total casualties: 157,621
Italian casualties: 6,029–6,040

Allies:
376,734 dead, missing and wounded,
1,756,000 captured
2,233 aircraft lost
1,749 French tanks lost
689 British tanks lost
~150,000 French
3,383–4,071 French tanks
<2,935 aircraft

Before Operation Barbarossa Europe was pretty much in Germany's hands.

Stop lying Sid.
The numbers flatter. Of course the Germans ended up with a lot of booty/POWS but that goes with being the loser. Compare it to the 3 million German POWs taken by the Western Allies in 1945

German casualties in 1940 were severe. If the French had not decided to seek terms then those losses on a day today basis, would be not far short of Russian front day-by-day losses. It was the short length of the 1940 campaign that distorts the numbers. France was only half-occupied as well. If the French had decided to fight to the end then German losses would have been huge. It was not just in France's interest to seek terms.


Sid Guttridge
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#18

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021, 01:08

Hi Michael,

I think the French were pretty much a busted flush by the time of the Armistice and I can't see them being in a position to do too much more damage to the Germans.

I would suggest that from the German point of view, the Armistice was driven by the desire to detach the French from the British so that they did not continue fighting from their empire. Besides, it is always cheaper to let people occupy themselves!

Cheers,

Sid.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#19

Post by Michael Kenny » 07 Mar 2021, 02:17

Sid Guttridge wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 01:08
Hi Michael,

I think the French were pretty much a busted flush by the time of the Armistice and I can't see them being in a position to do too much more damage to the Germans.
I would suggest that from the German point of view, the Armistice was driven by the desire to detach the French from the British so that they did not continue fighting from their empire. Besides, it is always cheaper to let people occupy themselves!
If the French had fought on their losses would not have been any worse than they suffered anyway. So continues fighting would have only added to German woes. Divide the German 1940 losses by the number of days and then see how they match Russian or even NWE 1944 losses.
Also without the captured French and BEF (and Czech) equipment this army of (mainly horse -drawn)'superman' could not have invaded Russia in 1941. German strategy (if anyone dares describe it so) was 'smash and grab'. It could not maintain its wartime Army without damage to its own economy and it depended on a swift victory that went sour in the summer of 1940 when the UK refused terms. The invasion of Russia far from being a stunning success was a complete disaster if you consider what Germany was trying to do. Once the fighting went into 1942 then Germany was never going to prevail. A lot of the simplistic super-soldier nonsense is predicated on the absurd belief that as Germany did not capitulate until 1945 if took until May 1945 to beat her.

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Topspeed
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#20

Post by Topspeed » 07 Mar 2021, 11:35

Yes it is somewhat funny almost that everytime some ruler/emperor in Europe thinks he is the king of the hill...he goes and tries to conquer Russia.

French emperor tried it and swedish king before him. Then AH had to go and try it also.

Let's face it...Russia is extremely large where the environment is almost as hostile as in Mars....and distances are huge.

As long as they don't try to steal our land again...I don't mind them being a nuclear weapon super power. In fact I have met few russians and find them very attractive and nice people when you get to know them. I think the barbaric commy phase has been passed there.
Last edited by Topspeed on 07 Mar 2021, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#21

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021, 11:50

Hi Topspeed,

Yup, Russia has moved on from the barbaric commie phase to the nationalist kleptocratic phase.

When will Russians ever get the government they deserve?

Cheers,

Sid

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wm
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#22

Post by wm » 07 Mar 2021, 11:54

Topspeed wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 11:35
he goes and tries to conquer Russia.
French emperor tried it and swedish king before him. Then AH had to go and try it also.
The Poles conquered Russia. Twice.

Mori
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#23

Post by Mori » 07 Mar 2021, 15:24

George L Gregory wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 12:13
France's population in 1939 was 107,624,472.
I always find it funny to read such number as a country's total population with 9 significant figures, as if this could be 0.0000001 % precise.

Especially when there's a large issue with the first 2 numbers, since metropolitan France was ca. 42 million people then.

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wm
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#24

Post by wm » 07 Mar 2021, 16:30

Excessive precision is a good indicator of low-quality scientific work.
There are strict rules on how to do it and lots of people never heard about them, don't understand them.

FiveStars
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#25

Post by FiveStars » 07 Mar 2021, 17:42

gebhk wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 20:54
allowed for a clean slate beginning without being lumbered with old gear.
Dear Gebhk,

Even that in itself wasn't the case. The German Army of 1939 and 1940 was equipped with a mishmash of modern and old weapons, aswell as Czech and Austrian weapons. Out of the 26,600 reported submachineguns in Wehrmacht service by the Invasion of Poland, 17,828 were older variants (MP18/28, MP34(ö)) and only 8,772 of them were of the MP-38 type. This is not counting other more exotic variants such as the EMP, MP35, etc.

Germany also had a shortage of machineguns, which meant older types (MG13, MG08/15 and MG08) were retained in service, and issued to certain units during certain mobilization waves. Weapons captured from annexations were utilized aswell. For example, divisions of the 5th and 6th wave were exclusively given ZB-26s as their primary light machinegun, and only were issued enough MG-34s to equip the heavy machinegun units.

Rifle-wise, the Heer (read: not SS) did manage to equip the majority of their troops with the K98k model, older rifle variants (G98m, K98b, K98a) still show up in photographs of units engaged in the polish and french campaigns. The 2. Gebirgsjaeger division, during the invasion of Norway, had some Austrian M95/30s in inventory, as indirect evidence seems to suggest

This shortage also extends to artillery aswell. Guns from the Weimar and First World War era were retained, and augmented by trophy weapons (especially Czech ones). The aforementioned divisions of the 5th and 6th wave were given such guns and it seems they have kept them well up to 1942.

In regards to Panzer units, the situation vehicle wise speaks for itself.

So essentially, the Germans were in the same predicament as everyone else. The only difference is the political and economic situation of the Allies meant they could not afford to invest as much money, manpower, and resources into rebuilding their military as the Germans did.

-Warmest Regards
Maks

Mori
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#26

Post by Mori » 07 Mar 2021, 17:49

wm wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 16:30
Excessive precision is a good indicator of low-quality scientific work.
There are strict rules on how to do it and lots of people never heard about them, don't understand them.
Fully agree.

The issue seems especially strong in military history. Many books have strength numbers with 5 or 6 significant digits. Even Zetterling & Frankson's quantitative analysis on Kursk and other battles fall into this trap.

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Topspeed
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#27

Post by Topspeed » 07 Mar 2021, 18:09

Sid Guttridge wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 11:50
Hi Topspeed,

Yup, Russia has moved on from the barbaric commie phase to the nationalist kleptocratic phase.

When will Russians ever get the government they deserve?

Cheers,

Sid
I have no idea...I hope really soon.

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Topspeed
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#28

Post by Topspeed » 07 Mar 2021, 18:09

wm wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 11:54
Topspeed wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 11:35
he goes and tries to conquer Russia.
French emperor tried it and swedish king before him. Then AH had to go and try it also.
The Poles conquered Russia. Twice.
When was this ?

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wm
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#29

Post by wm » 07 Mar 2021, 19:06


ljadw
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Re: Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

#30

Post by ljadw » 07 Mar 2021, 19:40

Sid Guttridge wrote:
07 Mar 2021, 11:50
Hi Topspeed,

Yup, Russia has moved on from the barbaric commie phase to the nationalist kleptocratic phase.

When will Russians ever get the government they deserve?

Cheers,

Sid
It is not on you to say what government the Russians deserve or not deserve .
The Russians have the government they want ,if the result is good ,that's their problem, if the result is bad , that's also their problem .
And :ONLY THEIR PROBLEM.
To paraphrase Cameron : the epoch is over where US and Britain could impose their choice of government on other countries .

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