Were nazi-germans really superhumans ?

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi ljadw,

Whoa there a minute.

I can have an opinion on any subject I like.

If you think Russians deserve the current kleptocracy, that is your opinion. Personally, I think they deserve better than communism or the corrupt autocracy they have now. How they eventually achieve that is, sadly, not currently up to them but, hopefully, one day it will be.

However, given that Russia has for centuries had more natural resources than any other country in the world, and yet still has widespread poverty, one has to wonder what has gone wrong for so long? Why has so much of the national wealth still not reached so much of the national population?

Cheers,

Sid

[wm]

Post-communism cleptocracy is unavoidable.
Putin isn't bad but he shouldn't have rigged elections so blatantly. Real men don't do that.

[Topspeed]

1605, 1610.
Releated: National Unity Day.

yes I suspected Lithuania was somehow mixed with this.

[ljadw]

Hi ljadw,

Whoa there a minute.

I can have an opinion on any subject I like.

If you think Russians deserve the current kleptocracy, that is your opinion. Personally, I think they deserve better than communism or the corrupt autocracy they have now. How they eventually achieve that is, sadly, not currently up to them but, hopefully, one day it will be.

However, given that Russia has for centuries had more natural resources than any other country in the world, and yet still has widespread poverty, one has to wonder what has gone wrong for so long? Why has so much of the national wealth still not reached so much of the national population?

Cheers,

Sid

1 The actual kleptocracy ( which is not limited to Russia: there is also kleptocracy in China, the US, the ME, the whole of Africa, etc ..) existed also between 1917 and 1989,and before 1917 .Andropov ordered,after the death of Breznjev, to arrest his two daughters,who were filling their pockets .
2 If the Russians are satisfied with the current regime, it is not on us to condemn the current regime . And they are satisfied : there are no mass demonstrations in Russia as in Bielorussia.
3 About your last question:what has gone ''wrong '' for so long ?That's the business of the Russians only, not of non Russians. And, as far as I can see ,the majority of the Russians do not consider this as wrong: for most of them ( as in Africa ) the national wealth ( a wrong Marxist word ) does not belong to the national population, but to the ruler.As it does in the Western countries who are the first to lecture every one who does not adopt unconditionally their political system : in most Western countries ,the biggest part of what earns and of what possesses an individual,is taken away by the state .
What's the difference ?
Putin is filling his pockets, our leaders are also filling their pockets . And more than Putin .

[wm]

That's not nice, Russia isn't another Bantustan and the Russians certainly don't believe that the national wealth belongs to Putin.

[gebhk]

And what does any of this got to do with the question whether the Nazis were superhumans?

[john2]

If nazis were supermen why couldn't they fly or shoot lasers from their eyes? Supermen nazis - "Oh no! Russia is too cold." Suck it up supermen today we go to the beach.

[Topspeed]

And what does any of this got to do with the question whether the Nazis were superhumans?

I have a hunch that without Soviet developements ( with Gulag system and 20 million missing persons ) the idea of the german "superhuman race" had not have had a chance to form in the first place.

[wm]

The Gulag and the Soviet mass murders inspired Hitler to do the same because the Soviets were able to go away with them and still be a respectable and even praised member of the League of Nations after that.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

Rhe proposer of this thread asked, "Is there any truth to this or is all this just a 100% ridicule and BS ?"

The proposition that the Nazis were "superhuman" is exclusive to this thread. They didn't even claim this themselves. They just saw themselves as superior. The idea is ridiculous and anyone who contributes here is simply helping to build a ludicrous straw man.

Cheers,

Sid

[Topspeed]

Hi Guys,

Rhe proposer of this thread asked, "Is there any truth to this or is all this just a 100% ridicule and BS ?"

The proposition that the Nazis were "superhuman" is exclusive to this thread. They didn't even claim this themselves. They just saw themselves as superior. The idea is ridiculous and anyone who contributes here is simply helping to build a ludicrous straw man.

Cheers,

Sid

Yes heil Hydra !

Many movies portray nazis as elitist supermen who are evil to the bone.

[Topspeed]

The Gulag and the Soviet mass murders inspired Hitler to do the same because the Soviets were able to go away with them and still be a respectable and even praised member of the League of Nations after that.

Exactly my point. In fact soviet system was far more cruel unfair than the system nazis were able to develope.

Only worse thing the nazis had was the extermination of the 60% of the jews...the ones that weren't able to do hard labour.

What made the Soviet system terrifying was that anyone was a target to go to a labour camp for a life....and many without right to write to home ( were exterminated while arrested ).

[ljadw]

Half of the Gulag inmates were common criminals, the same for the inmates of the KZ before the war .
Not all those who were put in a KZ/ Gulag were decent people .The US made this elementary mistake in Iraq when they liberated all Saddam's prisoners . With the consequences every one knows .
Other point : the majority of the Gulag inmates did not go to a labour camp for a life , but for a limited period .
Last point : one can not say tat one of both systems was more cruel than the other,because the number of victims ( bigger in the communist system ) does not determine the level of evil of a regime .

[gebhk]

So essentially, the Germans were in the same predicament as everyone else.

Sorry Fivestar, but I have to disagree. You are essentially comparing the equipment of German 'tenth-rate' units with the norm in Allied armies and equating the two. That just doesn't wash. No army in the history of the world has been able to equip all its forces with the best and most modern weapons in times of war and the dregs had to be quipped with venerable and non-standard weapons; whatever could be found in stores, stolen, scrounged or borrowed. If we are to make any useful comparisons then we need to compare the first line with first line and dregs with dregs and not the first line on one side with the dregs on the other.

As a basis of comparison it's probably most useful to compare with Poland and France.

Let's look at the main force:

Bolt action rifles don't matter because pretty-much perfection was achieved well before our time of interest and all armies had weapons which design- wise predated WW1. Their evolution into the automatic weapon of today was still a few years in the future. However, I would suggest that on average the weapon in German hands was a newer product to replace weapons culled after WW1.

You say some of German machine pistols were not of the most modern design. That is true, but then other armies had little or none altogether. The vast majority of the German weapons in this period were in any event back-up weapons for armoured vehicle crews, so again of little import.

The German SAW was an altogether more modern concept around a thirties design than the WW1 vintage BAR of the Polish army or the 1920s LMGs of the French.

The German standard MMG was again a very modern concept (ie a GPMG) with a thirties design while OVER HALF of the Polish Army's stock of MMGs was the WW1 MG08, the rest being a traditional 20s design and the ENTIRE French army was equipped with WW1 weapons.

Coming to what really matters on land - the divisional artillery: On the German side entirely composed of 30s pieces compared with being nearly entirely composed of WW1 (or upgraded just after) pieces in the French and Polish Divisions. Virtually all German heavy artillery was of modern design (they weren't permitted to have anything over 105mm after WW1).

Tanks: The oldest German tanks were of a similar age to the vast majority of the newest Polish and French tanks.

I think there is little debate that on average the Luftwaffe was the most modern-equipped air force in the world in 1939.

If we point the finger at the back of the queue, then yes there was some aged equipment, though I* would hazard a guess that there was, proportionally, far less of it than there was in other armies. Also, by and large, if you look at the back of the queue in Poland and France, you will find stuff far older than in the German back of the queue. There were no AV7s in the German stable. There were R17 's in the Polish and French ones. And just because equipment was inherited from annexations does not mean it was necessarily dated. The Zb LMG you mention was a thoroughly modern weapon, albeit a different concept to the German SAW - it's direct adaptation, the Bren, soldiered on for many years after WW2.

However, all this is so9mewhat missing the point. The fact is that at the beginning of the expansion of the German armed forces in 1933, there was very little existing equipment. This meant that development of tactics and strategy could be approached with virtually a clean slate without the need to adapt it to existing resources. This is a powerful aid to developing new strategic and tactical policy; I speak from experience (albeit not military).

[Topspeed]

Half of the Gulag inmates were common criminals, the same for the inmates of the KZ before the war .
Not all those who were put in a KZ/ Gulag were decent people .The US made this elementary mistake in Iraq when they liberated all Saddam's prisoners . With the consequences every one knows .
Other point : the majority of the Gulag inmates did not go to a labour camp for a life , but for a limited period .
Last point : one can not say tat one of both systems was more cruel than the other,because the number of victims ( bigger in the communist system ) does not determine the level of evil of a regime .

Certaily the amount of cruel act does not justify the number 1 spot. Maybe the duration does.