Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 575
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Mar 2021 22:32

I remember vaguely reading about some Nazis being tried before the Nazi courts for their behaviour.

Is that true?

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 6381
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by wm » 08 Mar 2021 22:37

Yes.

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 575
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Mar 2021 22:38

wm wrote:
08 Mar 2021 22:37
Yes.
Can you give some examples?

Br. James
Member
Posts: 701
Joined: 27 May 2013 20:45
Location: Baltimore

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by Br. James » 08 Mar 2021 23:24

Perhaps the most glaring of the cases of excess punished by the Supreme Party Court -- the USCHLA -- focused upon Gauleiter Julius Streicher. Here is a synopsis from Wikipedia:

"Despite his special relationship with Hitler, after 1938 Streicher's position began to unravel. He was accused of keeping Jewish property seized after Kristallnacht in November 1938; he was charged with spreading untrue stories about Göring – such as alleging that he was impotent and that his daughter Edda was conceived by artificial insemination; and he was confronted with his excessive personal behaviour, including unconcealed adultery, several furious verbal attacks on other Gauleiters and striding through the streets of Nuremberg cracking a bullwhip. He was brought before the Supreme Party Court and judged to be "unsuitable for leadership." On 16 February 1940, he was stripped of his party offices and withdrew from the public eye, although he was permitted to retain the title and rights of a Gauleiter, and to continue publishing "Der Stürmer." Hitler remained committed to Streicher, whom he considered a loyal friend, despite his unsavory reputation."

Br. James

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 6381
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by wm » 09 Mar 2021 00:23

SS-Untersturmführer Maximilian Grabner, the head of the Political Department (i.e., local Gestapo) in Auschwitz was sentenced for his unauthorized executions to twelve years in prison (initially to death.) Many SS-men were sentenced for theft.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23571
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by David Thompson » 09 Mar 2021 02:23

See also the corruption investigations of Georg Konrad Morgan (Wiki bio at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Konrad_Morgen) and note the trial and execution of Karl-Otto Koch, commandant of KZ Buchenwald (wiki bio at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Otto_Koch).

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 575
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by George L Gregory » 09 Mar 2021 23:05

Did the Nazis actually punish any Nazis for their treatment of the Jews or other people?

gebhk
Member
Posts: 1703
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by gebhk » 10 Mar 2021 10:36

Did the Nazis actually punish any Nazis for their treatment of the Jews or other people?
You need to define 'Nazis' in this context. Can't recall the details, but SS-men were certainly punished for excesses against Jews and others albeit, of course, not for the excesses per se but for carrying them out without proper authorisation. I expect raping Jews and other members of the 'lower races' would have been frowned upon too by the true believers in the Party?

User avatar
Topspeed
Member
Posts: 4594
Joined: 15 Jun 2004 15:19
Location: Finland

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by Topspeed » 10 Mar 2021 15:16

gebhk wrote:
10 Mar 2021 10:36
Did the Nazis actually punish any Nazis for their treatment of the Jews or other people?
You need to define 'Nazis' in this context. Can't recall the details, but SS-men were certainly punished for excesses against Jews and others albeit, of course, not for the excesses per se but for carrying them out without proper authorisation. I expect raping Jews and other members of the 'lower races' would have been frowned upon too by the true believers in the Party?

Josef Goebbels authorized extermination of 60% of the jews...others were to be used as labour force.

gebhk
Member
Posts: 1703
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by gebhk » 10 Mar 2021 16:21

Hi Topspeed

If I understand your meaning correctly then nevertheless that does not mean, in any self-respecting hierarchical organisation, that its functionaries can go round willy nilly shooting people as the fancy takes them. Lists have to be drawn up and everything properly accounted for. Otherwise how would you know that 60% have been murdered and not 59% or 61%? Incidentally, I'm not sure that JG was in a position to authorise anything of the sort (it wasn't his department), but that is by the by.

Kinda reminds me of a revolting Polish gallows humour and apocryphal story of the Warsaw Uprising. A German lieutenant is ordered to shoot a tenth of the patients in a newly-captured hospital. He goes to every tenth bed and shoots the occupant. The bodies are taken out and counted. There were 150 patients and there are 16 bodies. After several feverish recounts, the arithmetic still does not stack up - 140 living patients + 16 corpses. "Mein Gott!" wails the distraught lieutenant "I''ve killed an innocent man!".

On another note, there was concern that if troops were just allowed to go on murderous rampages outside of proper channels, it would undermine discipline and morale.

User avatar
Topspeed
Member
Posts: 4594
Joined: 15 Jun 2004 15:19
Location: Finland

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by Topspeed » 10 Mar 2021 18:55

gebhk wrote:
10 Mar 2021 16:21
Hi Topspeed

If I understand your meaning correctly then nevertheless that does not mean, in any self-respecting hierarchical organisation, that its functionaries can go round willy nilly shooting people as the fancy takes them. Lists have to be drawn up and everything properly accounted for. Otherwise how would you know that 60% have been murdered and not 59% or 61%? Incidentally, I'm not sure that JG was in a position to authorise anything of the sort (it wasn't his department), but that is by the by.

Kinda reminds me of a revolting Polish gallows humour and apocryphal story of the Warsaw Uprising. A German lieutenant is ordered to shoot a tenth of the patients in a newly-captured hospital. He goes to every tenth bed and shoots the occupant. The bodies are taken out and counted. There were 150 patients and there are 16 bodies. After several feverish recounts, the arithmetic still does not stack up - 140 living patients + 16 corpses. "Mein Gott!" wails the distraught lieutenant "I''ve killed an innocent man!".

On another note, there was concern that if troops were just allowed to go on murderous rampages outside of proper channels, it would undermine discipline and morale.
This is very delicate matter.

I think Himmler authorized to kill also gypsies as they had been ravished by infectious disease that was to kill also the other inmates and the guards.

I think JG mentioned 60% at the Wannsee conference in 1942. Was it implemented by the book...I have no data of.

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 575
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Did the Nazis punish any Nazis for their crimes?

Post by George L Gregory » 11 Mar 2021 15:29

gebhk wrote:
10 Mar 2021 10:36
Did the Nazis actually punish any Nazis for their treatment of the Jews or other people?
You need to define 'Nazis' in this context. Can't recall the details, but SS-men were certainly punished for excesses against Jews and others albeit, of course, not for the excesses per se but for carrying them out without proper authorisation. I expect raping Jews and other members of the 'lower races' would have been frowned upon too by the true believers in the Party?
Nazi officials in positions of working in the Special Courts, etc.

I remember reading vaguely somewhere on a white supremacist which I think was Stormfront and on the website there was the name of an SS man who was prosecuted for his crimes against Jews, but for the life of me I can't remember his name.

I remember reading somewhere that the Nazis punished German soldiers who raped Jewish women for race defilement rather than rape.

Return to “Propaganda, Culture & Architecture”