Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

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wm
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by wm » 29 Dec 2021 20:07

ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
1 A Jewish communist does not exist : both are excluding each other: communists are anti
Semites.
Not true.
Under the Israeli Law of Return Jew is a person having at least a single grandparent.
Converts to Christianity are excluded, not the Jewish communists.
For example, Salomon Morel, a Jewish officer in the Ministry of Public Security, responsible for the murder of 1500 people in a communist concentration camp, fled to Israel and was granted citizenship under the Law of Return.


ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
Thus there were no Jews in the Polish secret police.
a report October 20, 1945 by Nikolay Selivanovsky, the chief Soviet adviser at the Ministry of Public Security.
According to this report, Jews made up 18.7% of the ministry's workforce and held half of the managerial positions.

]Revisiting Jewish Role in Polish Security Service by Batya Knebel

ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
2 About the Pogrom : the Polish historian Jan T .Gros has a different opinion than you.
Gross is a leftist activist, he isn't a historian.
Last edited by wm on 29 Dec 2021 20:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by wm » 29 Dec 2021 20:14

ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:34
when the responsibles lived, not one of them was accused, condemned.
United States House Select Committee to Conduct an Investigation of the Facts, Evidence, and Circumstances of the Katyn Forest Massacre (1951)

The ... Committee determined unanimously that the NKVD was responsible for the executions, and recommended a trial before the International World Court of Justice.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by wm » 30 Dec 2021 01:24

btw that guy Gross didn't discover anything.
The perpetrators of Jedwabne were tried and sentenced in the forties and fifties.
He, using the court records, introduced Jedwabne into the tabloid news mill, where various people at various stages of historical ignorance and historical bigotry presented their invariably useless opinions.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 30 Dec 2021 09:30

wm wrote:
29 Dec 2021 20:14
ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:34
when the responsibles lived, not one of them was accused, condemned.
United States House Select Committee to Conduct an Investigation of the Facts, Evidence, and Circumstances of the Katyn Forest Massacre (1951)

The ... Committee determined unanimously that the NKVD was responsible for the executions, and recommended a trial before the International World Court of Justice.
A House Select Committee is not a court of justice : already in 1943 and before,it was known that the NKVD was responsible, but for political reasons, this was hidden .Thus,if the House remained silent in 1943, it should remain silent in 1951 .

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 30 Dec 2021 09:46

wm wrote:
29 Dec 2021 20:07
ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
1 A Jewish communist does not exist : both are excluding each other: communists are anti
Semites.
Not true.
Under the Israeli Law of Return Jew is a person having at least a single grandparent.
Converts to Christianity are excluded, not the Jewish communists.
For example, Salomon Morel, a Jewish officer in the Ministry of Public Security, responsible for the murder of 1500 people in a communist concentration camp, fled to Israel and was granted citizenship under the Law of Return.


ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
Thus there were no Jews in the Polish secret police.
a report October 20, 1945 by Nikolay Selivanovsky, the chief Soviet adviser at the Ministry of Public Security.
According to this report, Jews made up 18.7% of the ministry's workforce and held half of the managerial positions.

]Revisiting Jewish Role in Polish Security Service by Batya Knebel



I know this claim , but :it was not on Selivanowsky to decide who was Jew .
Jew is the person who considers himself as Jew .And, it is also NOT on the state of Israel to say who is Jewish : the grandparent clause is wrong . The daughter of Trump is Jewish,although she has no Jewish grandparent . It is more than possible that the majority of the inhabitants of Israel consider themselves as Israeli and not as Jews .
Marx and Soros do not consider themselves as Jews : they are hostile to everything that is Jewish, thus,they are not Jews .Barry Goldwater also did not consider himself as Jewish although one of his grandparents was a rabbi .
There is no proof that Morel considered himself as Jewish .That he fled to Israel to escape prosecution and that the Israeli state accepted him as Jewish,does not make him Jewish .
Bronstein (Trotzky ) is considered as Jewish by anti Semites, but he was hostile to everything that was Jewish and denied his mother a Jewish funeral .

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by George L Gregory » 30 Dec 2021 13:12

ljadw wrote:
30 Dec 2021 09:46
wm wrote:
29 Dec 2021 20:07
ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
1 A Jewish communist does not exist : both are excluding each other: communists are anti
Semites.
Not true.
Under the Israeli Law of Return Jew is a person having at least a single grandparent.
Converts to Christianity are excluded, not the Jewish communists.
For example, Salomon Morel, a Jewish officer in the Ministry of Public Security, responsible for the murder of 1500 people in a communist concentration camp, fled to Israel and was granted citizenship under the Law of Return.


ljadw wrote:
29 Dec 2021 18:05
Thus there were no Jews in the Polish secret police.
a report October 20, 1945 by Nikolay Selivanovsky, the chief Soviet adviser at the Ministry of Public Security.
According to this report, Jews made up 18.7% of the ministry's workforce and held half of the managerial positions.

]Revisiting Jewish Role in Polish Security Service by Batya Knebel



I know this claim , but :it was not on Selivanowsky to decide who was Jew .
Jew is the person who considers himself as Jew .And, it is also NOT on the state of Israel to say who is Jewish : the grandparent clause is wrong . The daughter of Trump is Jewish,although she has no Jewish grandparent . It is more than possible that the majority of the inhabitants of Israel consider themselves as Israeli and not as Jews .
Marx and Soros do not consider themselves as Jews : they are hostile to everything that is Jewish, thus,they are not Jews .Barry Goldwater also did not consider himself as Jewish although one of his grandparents was a rabbi .
There is no proof that Morel considered himself as Jewish .That he fled to Israel to escape prosecution and that the Israeli state accepted him as Jewish,does not make him Jewish .
Bronstein (Trotzky ) is considered as Jewish by anti Semites, but he was hostile to everything that was Jewish and denied his mother a Jewish funeral .
You’re a hypocrite of the highest degree. You’re disagreeing with what Jewish laws state and what Israel states about which people are considered to be Jews.

Errrrr, who made you the figure to determine which people can and cannot consider themselves to be Jews?

Your posts are just a mish-mash of absolute eyewash. So far you’ve admitted that you will not condemn rape, murder or any thing else that happened in the past because according to you it’s not up to you to do that and people shouldn’t apply modern-day standards to things that happened in the past which is quite frankly bizarre. However, what is even more bizarre is your claim that there are no such things as rape and murder. Then you claim there’s no such thing as a Jew who is a communist because according to you all communists are anti-semites (which is a load of rubbish, just like 99.9% of what you post) and now you’re babbling on about which people can and cannot and should and should not be considered Jews.

Give it a rest.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by wm » 30 Dec 2021 14:52

ljadw wrote:
30 Dec 2021 09:46
I know this claim , but :it was not on Selivanowsky to decide who was Jew.
You are confusing citizenship with ethnicity.
Both had to be declared when filling out the dreaded communist personal questionnaires and elaborated upon in the even more dreaded "resumes."
And any "mistake" in both was basically a hanging offense.

Selivanovsky knew the numbers because they themselves declared their ethnicity - as simple as that.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 30 Dec 2021 18:16

The grandparent clause ( probably imposed by the rabbi ) to determine if some one was Jewish and the decision to give all persons who said that they were Jewish,the liberty to become citizen of Israel was a big mistake .
It would have given people as Weinstein and Epstein the opportunity to become citizens of Israel and thus to escape prosecutions by their country of origin.
But the decision of Poland to demand the extradition of an Israeli citizen because he had done things in the far past the new regime of Poland does not like, is very,very stupid ,because it opens the box of Pandora . It will give the new Taliban regime of Afghanistan the opportunity to do the same and to demand the extradition of a former Afghan, now US citizen,who had worked for the CIA in Afghanistan and to demand also the extradition of his wife because in Afghanistan she did not wear the Hijab and thus violated the laws of the Islam .
Iran could also demand the extradition of a former agent of the secret police of the Shah,who is now living in the US as a US citizen.
Turkey could demand the extradition of Gülen (opponent of Erdogan and living in the US ).
Lukachenko could ask the extradition of Thikanovskaya .
Etc, etc,
The lawyers of Gülen, etc could argue that their extradition was asked not for horrible crimes they committed, but for their political opinions .
The same would have said the lawyers of Morel :they would also say that his crimes were legal when he committed them,as the Polish state not only was aware of them but also ordered them.
And, as a court of justice does not care about what was morally wrong,but only if the acts were legal or not,we can assume that Israel,the US ,.. would refuse the extraditions .
At the start of the Korean War, panicked US troops killed a number of POW's.What would happen if Kim would ask the extradition of the surviving US soldiers ?
Did US demand the extradition of the North Koreans who were responsible for the death of thousands of US POW's?
And, if Vietnam demanded the extradition of the responsibles of My Lai ?
And there are many more examples in the box of Pandora .
The fact is that the horrible things Morel did were legal when he did them and that the regime who asks his extradition did not exist when Morel committed his crimes .

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 31 Dec 2021 00:34

Continuing on with Yugoslavia:
The practical incorporation of Yugoslav marginal territories followed the same pattern in south-eastern Europe in 1941. For Lower Styria, enlarged towards the south, as well as southern Carinthia and the northern part of Carniola (Upper Carniola) - without Ljubljana - Hitler appointed on 14 April, respectively, Gauleiter Siegfried Uiberreither and Deputy Gauleiter Franz Kutschera (and at the end of November 1941 Gauleiter Freidrich Rainer) from the adjoining Gaue as heads of civil administration. The commander of of military district XVIII assumed command of military affairs. THe claims of the CdZs and the wishes of the various Reich authorities extended beyond the formerly Austrian territory. Prolonged negotiations with Hungary and Italy were necessary before a mixed frontier commission agreed on a delineation of the Reich's future southern frontier. At the beginning of May 1941 the customs guards assumed surveillance of the new external frontiers. The incorporation of the 'repatriated' Styrians into the Reich, announced by Uiberreither in his first proclamation, was not yet effected. The civil administration heads confidently expected it on 1 October 1941, but in February 1942 Hitler postponed the move 'for the time being' on the grounds that the territories were not yet ripe for reincorporation.
(DRZW, Vol V/I, part 1, p 172)

Another area that was only annexed de facto
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 31 Dec 2021 00:55

Further information regarding France and Luxemburg:

On 2 August 1940 Hitler ordered the installation of a German civil administration ('incorporation administration') in Luxemburg, Alsace, and Lorraine. The military authorities retained the exercise of military sovreignty until 31 October, when, in the course of a progressive effective annexation, these rights passed to the neighboring military district HQs XII and V and hence to the 'Befehlshaber des Ersatzheeres' [director general of army training]. In the absence of a legal basis the Wehrmacht intended to establish a common-law authority in these territories, which would permit it to take whatever it desired. It did not, however, wish to go so far as the creation, demanded by Robert Wagner, of an acting general command for a new military district on the Upper Rhine so long as the westward transfer of the Reich frontier was not associated with the formal annexation of the claimed territories. The CdZ territories, in consequence, retained an unresolved constitutional position, though this became less and less of an obstacle to the Reich authorities whenever they wished to take the measures that seemed necessary to them. (DRZW, Vol V/I, Part 1, p 170)

Further editorial buttressing the submission of 21 December 2021 that these regions of France were only annexed de facto. viewtopic.php?p=2381400#p2381400

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 31 Dec 2021 04:12

double post
Last edited by Gorque on 31 Dec 2021 04:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 31 Dec 2021 04:40

George L Gregory wrote:
26 Dec 2021 17:32
Gorque wrote:
25 Dec 2021 13:04
Whoa, what?!? Aktion T4 was authorized by a single mad man, AH.
Hitler wasn’t a madman. That’s what a lot of people say or write to try to explain the awful things he did. It really wasn’t the case at all. On the contrary, he was a very intelligent man who was extremely charismatic and those two things combined together enabled him to come to power legally and start a war that ultimately became a world war and resulted in the deaths of millions of soldiers, innocent civilians, etc, as well as being the man behind the genocide of millions of innocent Jews and other people of all ages including children and old people, men and women, etc.
I beg to, respectfully, disagree. Only a madman, would subject his nation in the final years of war to the aerial punishment the Germany endured in 1944-1945; to the malnourishment he subjected the Germans to, to the planned destruction of German bridges and road;, as a punishment to the German people for have lost the war for him; for the forced death marches of the prisoners of the various detention camps, etc, etc.

But lets be fair and not look at the last years of the conflict where the effects of Dr. Morell's injected cocktails were having their mind-altering effects.

While in Landsberg, A.H., he penned the delusional, self-promoting, nonsensical drivel, Mein Kampf ; realized that anti-semitism was not the ticket to the Chancellorship and modified his oratory accordingly to suit his audience; Achieved the Chancellorship through pugnacious obstinance. When he achieved the Chancellorship, moved quickly against his opposition through judicial and extra-judicial means. Crushed his opposition through either imprisonment or protective custody. Embarked upon a unsustainable rearmament program. Murdered at least six million non-combatants who, as a result of his conquests, were under his charge; Engaged in wars of aggression against Germany's immediate neighbors which in the end resulted in the deaths of twenty million Germans and perhaps, at least 80 non-Germans.

I'd say that would, IMHO, qualify A.H. as a madman. :D
Last edited by Gorque on 31 Dec 2021 11:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 31 Dec 2021 06:59

That is qualifying him as an intelligent criminal .Not a madman,because madmen are not criminals .
PS :20 million dead Germans is impossible ,the same for the claim of 80 million non-Germans .
Crushing the opposition does not mean to be a madman :the opposition is crushed in Venezuela, Cuba, Sudan, North Korea ,Egypt, etc ..
It was crushed in Indonesia, South Korea,etc..
US presidents invited/met the leaders of these countries and no one said that hey were madmen .
An ''unsustainable '' rearmament is also not a proof of being a madman : were the rearmament programs of Britain after 1945, of Reagan,of Israel, of Bush, of the USSR after WW 2 sustainable ?
And that the cocktails of Morell had mind-altering effects is a questionable and unproved claim from American media.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Sid Guttridge » 31 Dec 2021 11:25

Hi Gorque,

Surely, anyone who, "realized that anti-semitism was not the ticket to the Chancellorship and modified his oratory accordingly to suit his audience" is a calculating opportunist, not a madman?

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 31 Dec 2021 11:38

Hi SId:

A valid point.

How about before he mutated into a madman, he was a calculating opportunist. I can agree to that. :)

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