Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

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George L Gregory
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by George L Gregory » 16 Dec 2021 15:43

Hans1906 wrote:
16 Dec 2021 14:38
George,

if you were serious about your "sources" above, then you have no credit left with me personally.
If these should be your "sources", for these speeches at that time, then I am sorry.

This is now too much for me, I do not support such a thing.


Hans
Lmao, what? It’s a website dedicated to various speeches by Adolf Hitler and other things related to Adolf Hitler.

George L Gregory
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by George L Gregory » 16 Dec 2021 15:56

ljadw wrote:
16 Dec 2021 15:29
If Grossdeutschland existed after the Anschluss of Austria and Sudetenland, why did Hitler want to have back the parts of Poland Germany lost in 1918 ?Why did he occupy Memelland,the Alsace, Eupen-Malmedy, South Tirol, the north of Slovenia,why ordered he plans for the colonization of European Russia ?
If Grossdeutschland existed before the war,why was it increased during the war ?
There was a big difference between what Hitler said and what he did .
Well the idea of a Greater Germany in the 1800s included Austria. The Nazis used the term informally after the Anschluss.

Point 1 of the National Socialist Program:

“We demand the union of all Germans to form the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination enjoyed by the nations.”

Nazi propaganda mentioned it in 1938. For example in the pamphlet “The Life of The Führer”:
Today Adolf Hitler’s birthplace belongs to Germany. He was born on 20 April 1889 in Braunau am Inn in Upper Austria. But he is German. He does not feel like an Austrian. When war breaks out in 1914, he volunteers for the German army. As Point 1 of the National Socialist program states: “We demand a Greater German Reich.” On page 1 of the Führer’s autobiography Mein Kampf we find these words: “Common blood belongs in a common Reich.” We can better understand the first point of program of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party when we realize that Adolf Hitler himself is a German who was born outside of Germany. We affirm that the law of common blood transcends state borders. Austria fulfilled this German longing on 13 March 1938.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... hitler.htm

Joseph Goebbels during his speech for Hitler’s 49th birthday known as “Our Hitler” on 20 April 1938 said:
The Führer has probably never had so many happy people gathered about him for his birthday as in this year. All the 75 million people of the Greater German Reich stand before him to express their heartfelt best wishes and deepest thanks to him. In the truest sense of the word, this is a holiday for the entire nation. The banners of National Socialism fly from north to south and east to west. And beyond our borders, millions upon millions of our ethnic clan join with the citizens of the Reich in a unique affirmation of loyalty, connectedness, and faithful attachment.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... nser38.htm

Goebbels during his New Year speech 1938-1939 on 31 December 1938 said:
There is no doubt that the year 1938 was unique in German history. It fulfilled a thousand-year dream of the German nation. The Greater German Reich has become reality.

[…]

Never were our wishes for him heartier and deeper than in this hour. We thank him for the Greater German Reich that is now a reality. Only his courage, his steadfastness, his actions, and his nerves made this great miracle possible.

It has been six years since we gathered with him at the end of 1932 at the Obersalzberg. It was at National Socialism’s gravest hour. The movement had experienced a depressing electoral loss and many had begun to lose faith in ultimate victory. Those who always live in the past were saying that Hitler’s star was sinking.

More than ever, however, we believed in him and in his strong and unshakable belief in the greatness of the Reich and the historic mission of the German people. Because he believed so firmly and unshakably, the Greater German Reich has become reality.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... goeb16.htm

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Hans1906
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Hans1906 » 16 Dec 2021 18:38

Lmao, what? It’s a website dedicated to various speeches by Adolf Hitler and other things related to Adolf Hitler.
Feel free to laugh your ass off, your choice, not mine.


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

ljadw
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 16 Dec 2021 19:36

George L Gregory wrote:
16 Dec 2021 15:56
ljadw wrote:
16 Dec 2021 15:29
If Grossdeutschland existed after the Anschluss of Austria and Sudetenland, why did Hitler want to have back the parts of Poland Germany lost in 1918 ?Why did he occupy Memelland,the Alsace, Eupen-Malmedy, South Tirol, the north of Slovenia,why ordered he plans for the colonization of European Russia ?
If Grossdeutschland existed before the war,why was it increased during the war ?
There was a big difference between what Hitler said and what he did .
Well the idea of a Greater Germany in the 1800s included Austria. The Nazis used the term informally after the Anschluss.

Point 1 of the National Socialist Program:

“We demand the union of all Germans to form the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination enjoyed by the nations.”

Nazi propaganda mentioned it in 1938. For example in the pamphlet “The Life of The Führer”:
Today Adolf Hitler’s birthplace belongs to Germany. He was born on 20 April 1889 in Braunau am Inn in Upper Austria. But he is German. He does not feel like an Austrian. When war breaks out in 1914, he volunteers for the German army. As Point 1 of the National Socialist program states: “We demand a Greater German Reich.” On page 1 of the Führer’s autobiography Mein Kampf we find these words: “Common blood belongs in a common Reich.” We can better understand the first point of program of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party when we realize that Adolf Hitler himself is a German who was born outside of Germany. We affirm that the law of common blood transcends state borders. Austria fulfilled this German longing on 13 March 1938.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... hitler.htm

Joseph Goebbels during his speech for Hitler’s 49th birthday known as “Our Hitler” on 20 April 1938 said:
The Führer has probably never had so many happy people gathered about him for his birthday as in this year. All the 75 million people of the Greater German Reich stand before him to express their heartfelt best wishes and deepest thanks to him. In the truest sense of the word, this is a holiday for the entire nation. The banners of National Socialism fly from north to south and east to west. And beyond our borders, millions upon millions of our ethnic clan join with the citizens of the Reich in a unique affirmation of loyalty, connectedness, and faithful attachment.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... nser38.htm

Goebbels during his New Year speech 1938-1939 on 31 December 1938 said:
There is no doubt that the year 1938 was unique in German history. It fulfilled a thousand-year dream of the German nation. The Greater German Reich has become reality.

[…]

Never were our wishes for him heartier and deeper than in this hour. We thank him for the Greater German Reich that is now a reality. Only his courage, his steadfastness, his actions, and his nerves made this great miracle possible.

It has been six years since we gathered with him at the end of 1932 at the Obersalzberg. It was at National Socialism’s gravest hour. The movement had experienced a depressing electoral loss and many had begun to lose faith in ultimate victory. Those who always live in the past were saying that Hitler’s star was sinking.

More than ever, however, we believed in him and in his strong and unshakable belief in the greatness of the Reich and the historic mission of the German people. Because he believed so firmly and unshakably, the Greater German Reich has become reality.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... goeb16.htm
I know this, but the questions remain
1 If Goebbels said at the end of 1938 that Greater Germany existed,that means that there was no need to take Memelland, Czechia ( where were living a lot of Germans ) and during the war the Alsace,etc and to colonize European Russia as these territories did not belong to Greater Germany .
2 If ,OTOH,these territories belonged to Greater Germany,Greater Germany did not exist in 1938 .
One can not say : Greater Germany exists and than later occupy territories who did not belong to Greater Germany ,but with justification that they yet belonged to Greater Germany .
South Tirol mainly inhabited by German speaking people and was thus a part of Greater Germany as was Austria, but for reasons of Realpolitik,Hitler abandoned these people ,till in 1943 when he said that they belonged to Greater Germany .
If they were a part of it in 1943, they were also a part of Greater Germany in 1938 . The same for the Polish territories .
The conclusion is that the boasting proclamations of Hitler and Goebbels were nothing else than ..boasting proclamations .

George L Gregory
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by George L Gregory » 16 Dec 2021 22:40

They used the term informally after the Anschluss.

I mentioned that in the post you quoted.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Sid Guttridge » 17 Dec 2021 12:10

Hi ljadw,

It is not true that "at the end of 1938" there "were living a lot of Germans" in "Czechia". After Munich the 225,000 Germans still living there were only 3.3% of the population and they amounted to under 1/320th of all Germans in Europe.

I tend to agree that "the boasting proclamations of Hitler and Goebbels were nothing else than ..boasting proclamations." Their public statements were designed to be effective at that moment. They didn't necessarily have to be consistent, true or unchangeable so long as they served the political needs of the day.

Cheers,

Sid.

George L Gregory
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by George L Gregory » 17 Dec 2021 18:08

Sid Guttridge wrote:
17 Dec 2021 12:10
Hi ljadw,

It is not true that "at the end of 1938" there "were living a lot of Germans" in "Czechia". After Munich the 225,000 Germans still living there were only 3.3% of the population and they amounted to under 1/320th of all Germans in Europe.
Yup. That’s why the Sudetenland (the so-called last territorial demand in Europe Hitler was going to make which was soon found out to be a lie) was given to him. However, the further annexation and occupation of what was left of Czechoslovakia was a violation of the Munich Agreement and went way beyond the alleged claim that he was only interested in ‘ethnic Germans’ because ‘ethnic Czechs’ became under Nazi rule.

What’s quite odd is that given Hitler’s view that the Czechs were racially inferior to the Germans, after the annexation and occupation of the rest of Czechoslovakia the definition of ‘German’ included someone of partially Czech (and other Europeans were used) descent. Even before that, the Czechs were used as examples of ‘related blood’ (so-called Aryans) to the Germans. Half of the Czech population was deemed to be racially valuable (Nordic) to be Germanised too.

The quote about being of partially Czech descent and being regarded as a German was said by the Nazi Karl Frank:
Whoever professes himself to be a member of the German nation is a member of the German nation," provided that this profession is confirmed by certain facts, such as language, upbringing, culture, etc. Persons of alien blood, particularly Jews, are never Germans. . . . Because professing to be a member of the German nation is of vital significance, even someone who is partly or completely of another race—Czech, Slovak, Ukrainian, Hungarian, or Polish, for example—can be considered a German. Any more precise elaboration of the term "German national" is not possible given current relationships.
Oddly enough this went against Hitler’s own views about the Czechs. In the late 1920s he wrote:
The National Socialist Movement, on the contrary, will always let its foreign policy be determined by the necessity to secure the space necessary to the life of our Folk. It knows no Germanising or Teutonising, as in the case of the national bourgeoisie, but only the spread of its own Folk. It will never see in the subjugated, so called Germanised, Czechs or Poles a national, let alone Folkish, strengthening, but only the racial weakening of our Folk.
And during WW2 he said:
…Of all the Slavs, the Czech is the most dangerous one, because he is diligent. He has discipline, is orderly, he is more Mongoloid than Slavic. He knows how to hide his plans behind a certain loyalty. ...I don't despise them , it is a battle of destinies. An alien racial splinter has penetrated our folkdom, and one must yield, he or we. ...That's one of the reasons why the Hapsburgs perished. They believed they could solve the problem through kindness.
I tend to agree that "the boasting proclamations of Hitler and Goebbels were nothing else than ..boasting proclamations." Their public statements were designed to be effective at that moment. They didn't necessarily have to be consistent, true or unchangeable so long as they served the political needs of the day.

Cheers,

Sid.
Well as far as the Anschluss went, it allowed Hitler to state that he was really from Germany since Austria was back to being part of the Reich since it was not when he was born, but Austria at that time was viewed as being a German state that was just for many Germans unfortunately not part of Germany.

Well as the war progressed the Nazis even proclaimed a Greater Germanic Reich.

George L Gregory
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by George L Gregory » 17 Dec 2021 18:18

Hans1906 wrote:
16 Dec 2021 18:38
Lmao, what? It’s a website dedicated to various speeches by Adolf Hitler and other things related to Adolf Hitler.
Feel free to laugh your ass off, your choice, not mine.


Hans
You are nuts.

I quoted text from speeches.

What is wrong with you? You’re always complaining about someone.

ljadw
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 17 Dec 2021 19:58

About the 225000 Germans in Czechia, this was a considerable group .
There were in Memelland 100000 people considered as Germans, in Slovenia 30000,in South Tirol 213000 and Germany annexed all these territories .
More than 1 million in Poland, almost 1 million in the Alsace,and also the Volga Germans (400000 )
After the annexation of the Sudeten there were still 3 million of Volksdeutsche outside Germany .
That's why one should not take seriously what Goebbels and Hitler said at the end of 1938.
Could there be a Greater Germany while 3 million of Volksdeutsche were living outside Germany ?

ljadw
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 17 Dec 2021 20:11

A detail:the rest of Czechoslovakia was occupied but not annexed.Slovakia was a satellite,but an independent state (whose existence was recognized by several countries). Czechia was never a part of Germany : there were customs at the border,in Germany and in Czechia .

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Gorque
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 17 Dec 2021 21:04

Annexations de facto vs de jure

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Sid Guttridge » 17 Dec 2021 23:02

Hi ljadw,

The 225,000 Germans were not "a group". They were widely distributed among the vast majority of Czechs. Most of those who were "grouped" in majority German areas had already been absorbed into the Reich by the occupation of Sudtenland, etc.. The only significant exceptions were arguably Schönhengstgau and Iglau. These had no contiguous border with German majority areas annexed by Germany after Munich.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Gorque
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by Gorque » 18 Dec 2021 04:24

He'll just jeep moving the goalposts. First into the stands, then into the parking lot, .....

ljadw
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 18 Dec 2021 06:41

Gorque wrote:
17 Dec 2021 21:04
Annexations de facto vs de jure
Something which was used (and is used ) by the West to avoid condemnations .

ljadw
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Re: Adolf Hitler’s speech on 30 January 1939 and Lebensraum

Post by ljadw » 18 Dec 2021 07:25

Sid Guttridge wrote:
17 Dec 2021 23:02
Hi ljadw,

The 225,000 Germans were not "a group". They were widely distributed among the vast majority of Czechs. Most of those who were "grouped" in majority German areas had already been absorbed into the Reich by the occupation of Sudtenland, etc.. The only significant exceptions were arguably Schönhengstgau and Iglau. These had no contiguous border with German majority areas annexed by Germany after Munich.

Cheers,

Sid.
There were also 50000 ethnic Germans in Prague.
That there was no contiguous border /or a contiguous border with the Reich was unimportant for Hitler .The Wolga Germans had also no border with the Reich,the same for the ethnic Germans in Estonia and Latvia (170000 ).

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