Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

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George L Gregory
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Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by George L Gregory » 13 Dec 2021 22:05

I’m curious, what was Joseph Goebbels’ view on the term subhumans (untermenschen)?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Dec 2021 12:18

Hi GLG,

As Minister of Propaganda, of all the most senior Nazis below Hitler, Goebbels had to be most mindful of the impact of his public utterances, both nationally and internationally.

Therefore his private opinions may not be reflected in his public utterances.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by bytwerk » 06 Jan 2022 15:59

I don't recall his use of that specific term, but he did make less than complimentary comments about the Russians (and, of course, the Jews). See:

https://research.calvin.edu/german-prop ... goeb11.htm

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Hans1906
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by Hans1906 » 06 Jan 2022 21:32

"Hinweg mit diesen degenerierten Untermenschen!" "Down with these Subhumans!" Dr. Goebbels on the Occasion of the Nuremberg Party Rally in 1935"
Goebbels, who himself was severely disabled, formulated sentences that ultimately led all disabled people to destruction.

The complete insanity, a physically disabled person preached the annihilation of disabled people and so called subhumans.
Completely incomprehensible, the man was really sick, complete madness, total delusion, the end of his family speaks for itself.

Completely incomprehensible, not even in a thousand years in the future, that this fiend has never seen, well!

On my daily walk to the local supermarket, I meet a severely disabled gentleman my age almost every day.
The man can barely walk, but he walks without crutches, putting one foot in front of the other foot...
People turn to look at the man, gawk at him, it's pathetic, nothing has really changed, nothing!


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

GregSingh
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by GregSingh » 07 Jan 2022 01:47

"Hinweg mit diesen degenerierten Untermenschen!" "Down with these Subhumans!" Dr. Goebbels on the Occasion of the Nuremberg Party Rally in 1935"
Speech is available here: Communism with the Mask Off by Joseph Goebbels, but I could not find the above statement. Also it was not mentioned in German printed versions AFAIK.

On the other hand at the end of September 1935 a German Communist Party member Helmut Herzfeld (also known as John Heartfield) created a poster called: Klumpfüßchens Wunschtraum: "Hinweg mit diesen degenerierten Untermenschen" (Clubfoot's dream: Down with these Subhumans).

BTW
Helmut Herzfeld created more anti-Nazi and anti-capitalist posters published by Arbeiter-Illustrierte-Zeitung, with catchy titles: "Adolf, the Superman", "The meaning of Geneva - Where capital lives, there can be no peace" or "Hurray, there's no butter left".
The more you let yourself to go, the less others will let you to go.
F.Nietzsche

Ecam
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by Ecam » 07 Jan 2022 05:58

People turn to look at the man, gawk at him, it's pathetic, nothing has really changed, nothing!
Sadly, even a presidential candidate too. And despite that, he was elected.

https://youtu.be/hFOy8-03qdg

andrek
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by andrek » 07 Jan 2022 16:44

I have just under 90 speeches from Goebbels. Complete talk - word for word and not - which is often common - sentence petions or individual words. There are also a lot inventions of what he should have said and what not in circulation:

To make it short, I have only found the word Untermensch twice:
[...]Auf Hamburg aber richten sich heute nicht nur die Augen Nord-
deutschlands, sondern des ganzen deutschen Volkes. Nachdem der Kanz-
ler [die Musik setzt aus] in den letzten Tagen gezeigt hat, daß er zum
Äußersten bereit ist, die bolschewistische Gefahr, die mit dem verbreche-
rischen Anschlag auf den Deutschen Reichstag jedem im Volke sichtbar
geworden ist, zu beseitigen 4 5 , haben sich die kommunistischen Hetzer und
Brandstifter hier nach Hamburg verzogen^, um von dieser Stadt aus das
deutsche Volk weiterhin in den Bürgerkrieg hineinzuhetzen. Durch diese
Brandstiftung hat sich der Bolschewismus als das entlarvt, als was wir
Nationalsozialisten ihn schon seit Jahren erkannt hatten. Verbrecheri-
sches Untermenschentum hat in Deutschland eine Partei organisieren
dürfen, die mit Politik gar nichts zu tun hat, mit der sich nicht politi-
sehe Gruppen und Verbände, sondern eigentlich nur die Strafrichter aus-
einanderzusetzen haben. Jetzt mit einem Male ist es vor der gesamten
Nation sichtbar geworden, was die politischen Kinder der Sozialdemo-
kratie und des Herrn Severing im Schilde führen. Jedem ist es klarge-
worden, welcher unerhörten, verbrecherischen Unterlassung sich die SPD
schuldig gemacht hat, als sie mit unzureichenden Mitteln und mit Samt-
handschuhen diese Verbrecherorganisation behandelte. Jahrelang hat
man ohne Grund und ohne Anlaß unsere Geschäftsstellen von oben bis
unten durchstöbert, hat tagelang SA-Männern aufgelauert, um sie zu
verhaften, hat die Beamten, die sich zur Nation bekannten, aus Arbeit
und Brot gejagt, und währenddessen konnten die roten Mörderzentralen
wagen, alle Einzelheiten genau vorzubereiten, um eines Tages den Bür-
gerkrieg in den schrecklichsten Formen in Deutschland zu entfesseln.[...] (3.3.1933)
[...]Das aber unterscheidet diese Revolution von der Revolte im Novem-
ber 1918. Damals brach der Materialismus durch, der Marxismus be-
hauptete das Feld. Die Kräfte des Untermenschentums haben das politi-
sche Terrain erobert, und darauf folgten dann in Deutschland vierzehn
Jahre unausdenkbarer und unbeschreiblicher materieller und geistiger
Schmach. Diese Schmach haben wir alle am eigenen Leibe zu verspüren
bekommen. Sie verspürte jeder Arbeiter, der seinen Platz an der
Maschine verlor. Sie verspürte jeder Jungarbeiter, der vom Zugang zur
Arbeit ausgeschlossen wurde. Sie verspürte jeder Bürger, dem man den
letzten Groschen aus der Tasche nahm. Sie verspürte jeder Soldat, der,
knirschend mit den Zähnen, zuschauen mußte, wie man die nationale
Wehrhaftigkeit und die Ehre des deutschen Volkes ungestraft mit Füßen
treten durfte. [...] (10.5.1933)
In both speeches he doesn't have it with the russians or jews, he is talking about the german communists aka KPD and the socialist aka SPD. In Goebbels early days as a polition the enemy of the NSDAP was the communist and the sozialist. Later, this list was extended to Russians and Jews. In the opinion of the nazis was the Russian = Untermensch and the Jew = Ungeziefer.

In his speeches published by the "Völkischer Beobachter" the word Untermensch doesn't show up.

I think there might be a misunderstanding, Goebbels was not Julius Streicher who published "Der Stürmer". "Der Stürmer" used the word Untermensch permanent and excessive and in all variations.

By the way, Goebbels seems to never used the word Rasse (race). I couldn't find it. That is really strange to me. In today's Germany, this word is used almost non-stop by the media and in police reports. Yes, in today's Germany, racist and anti-Semitic offenses occur almost daily and since 2015 there are more and more. Read text point 7. The anti-Semites are crawled out of their holes in Germany. Had someone told me about this placement in early 2015, I would have laughed at the one. In Berlin, demonstrations against the mask obligation to defend COVID are prohibited but an anti-Semitic demonstration is allowed and not even questioned.

Proof me wrong, but i couldn' t find the word Untermensch in Hitler's "Mein Kampf" (my edition is dated 1944). That is curious. On the other hand we can find lots of Gauleiter speeches with the word Untermensch and they don't make a difference between a russian and a jew. Again, curious.

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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by George L Gregory » 07 Jan 2022 22:06

Hans1906 wrote:
06 Jan 2022 21:32
"Hinweg mit diesen degenerierten Untermenschen!" "Down with these Subhumans!" Dr. Goebbels on the Occasion of the Nuremberg Party Rally in 1935"
Source?

I think you’ll find that at the Nuremberg Party in 1935 Goebbels said:
While National Socialism brought about a new version and formulation of European culture, Bolshevism is the declaration of war by Jewish-led international subhumans against culture itself. It is not only anti-bourgeois, it is anti-cultural. It means, in the final consequence, the absolute destruction of all economic, social, state, cultural, and civilizing advances made by western civilization for the benefit of a rootless and nomadic international clique of conspirators, who have found their representation in Jewry.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... oy-culture

He wasn’t calling Jews as a group “subhumans” but rather the Jews who were leading Bolshevism.

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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 08 Jan 2022 09:00

Hi GLG,

Taken literally as on the page, he seems to be referring to those led by Jews as "international subhumans", not the Jews themselves. Perhaps something got lost in translation?

Cheers,

Sid

GregSingh
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by GregSingh » 08 Jan 2022 12:45

I think Dr.G said:
"...ist der Bolschewismus die Kampfansage des von Juden geführten internationalen Untermenschentums gegen die Kultur an sich..."

So it's "international subhumanity" perhaps?

In that 1935 English translation (done by Germans themselves) I provided a link earlier to, it's "international underworld".
The more you let yourself to go, the less others will let you to go.
F.Nietzsche

George L Gregory
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Jan 2022 13:29

Sid Guttridge wrote:
08 Jan 2022 09:00
Hi GLG,

Taken literally as on the page, he seems to be referring to those led by Jews as "international subhumans", not the Jews themselves. Perhaps something got lost in translation?

Cheers,

Sid
Ah, yes. You are partially right. The people following Bolshevism who were being led by Jews (since the Nazis believed in the conspiracy theory and myth of Jewish Bolshevism) to be subhumans which would also include the Jews who allegedly led Bolshevism.

There are other examples of the Nazis describing Bolsheviks as “subhumans”.
Last edited by George L Gregory on 08 Jan 2022 13:33, edited 2 times in total.

George L Gregory
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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Jan 2022 13:30

GregSingh wrote:
08 Jan 2022 12:45
I think Dr.G said:
"...ist der Bolschewismus die Kampfansage des von Juden geführten internationalen Untermenschentums gegen die Kultur an sich..."

So it's "international subhumanity" perhaps?

In that 1935 English translation (done by Germans themselves) I provided a link earlier to, it's "international underworld".
The people from all over the world (international) who believed in Bolshevism. The Jewish bit is because the Nazis considered Bolshevism to be a Jewish idea.

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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by Frischluft » 25 Jan 2022 01:30

andrek wrote:
07 Jan 2022 16:44
By the way, Goebbels seems to never used the word Rasse (race). I couldn't find it. That is really strange to me.
It is comprehensible why Goebbels didn't use the term "race" in his speeches, considering that in his diaries he again and again criticised "race materialism". My translation and the German transcription:
Hierl on [Hanno] Konopath. I polemicize vehemently against this race materialism. First, programmatic clarification necessary. Hierl gets very calm and promises remedy. Poor Konopath! His meat market and his "Nordic Ring" will also bite the dust.
Hierl über Konopath. Ich polemisiere heftig gegen diesen Rassenmaterialismus. Zuerst programmatische Klärung nötig. Hierl wird sehr ruhig und verspricht Abhilfe. Armer Konopath! Sein Fleischmarkt und sein "Nordischer Ring" werden auch draufgehen.
(September 30, 1931)
Office: Conversation Konopath. Very heated. On the possibility of a racial propaganda. Konopath worships a blond race materialism. Race lies in the character. External features are in most cases very doubtful. We go at each other fiercely, particularly as he conducted a smear campaign against my person in an unqualifiable manner.
Büro: Unterredung Konopath. Sehr erregt. Über die Möglichkeit einer Rassenpropaganda. Konopath huldigt einem blonden Rassenmaterialismus. Die Rasse steht im Wesen. Äußere Merkmale sind meist sehr zweifelhaft. Wir geraten hart aneinander, zumal er in unqualifizierbarer Weise gegen mich persönlich gehetzt hat.
(October 24, 1931)

On Alexander Paul, who had written in an article that positive movie roles should in principle only be played by Nordid people and negative roles by racially inferior people:*
Had publicly defined [Jenny] Jugo and Lucie Englisch as Mediterranid, and [Hilde] Hildebrand and half-Jewess [Genia] Nikolajewa as Nordid. The nonsense of race materialism, which does not look at attitude and ethos but at peroxide blond. I remedied that. A 1933 party comrade, who defended his racial ideals by no means in the Pharus Halls. A stupid pack of hypocrites, whom I will tackle now, writing ban!
Hatte Jugo und Lucie Englisch als westisch, und die Hildebrandt [sic] und Halbjüdin Nikolajewa als nordisch öffentlich festgelegt. Der Unfug des Rasse-Materialismus, der nicht auf Haltung und Gesinnung sondern auf Wasserstoff-Blond schaut. Ich habe dem abgeholfen. Ein 1933er Parteigenosse, der seine Rasseideale keineswegs in den Pharussälen verteidigte. Ein dummes Heuchlerpack, dem ich nun zu Leibe rücken werde, Schreibverbot!
(June 24, 1936)

* "Der Film der Gegenwart und die Rassenfrage" (Contemporary Film and the Race Question), according to "NS-Presseanweisungen der Vorkriegszeit: Edition und Dokumentation", Bd. 4/I: 1936, p. 680 f.

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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by George L Gregory » 25 Jan 2022 15:58

Frischluft wrote:
25 Jan 2022 01:30
andrek wrote:
07 Jan 2022 16:44
By the way, Goebbels seems to never used the word Rasse (race). I couldn't find it. That is really strange to me.
It is comprehensible why Goebbels didn't use the term "race" in his speeches.
Is it? Goebbels in his early days before he became a Nazi dismissed antisemitism and then when he found out a girlfriend had Jewish mother he scorned at it. The Nazis despised the Czechs as Slavs but he had an affair with a Czech actress. He wrote about superiority of the Nordic race, but he was the complete opposite. Etc.

But that’s the whole point… propaganda doesn’t have to be based necessarily on any facts or ideals.

Neo-Nazis like to misuse the word ‘selfless’ to describe the hypocrisy of the Nazis which is quite frankly bonkers.

As for your quotes about Goebbels on race, he also wrote in diary October 1937:
Discussed race policy with Dr. Gross. I reproached him for our flawed standards for making selections. According to them, practically every officer today would be dismissed.

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Re: Did Joseph Goebbels ever describe any groups as “subhumans” in propaganda?

Post by G, Y? » 25 Jan 2022 18:11

There was some German joke:

Blonde like Hitler
Slim like Goering
Sharp eyed like Himmler
and athletic like Goebbels (he was club footed)

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