A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

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Linkagain
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A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by Linkagain » 18 Jan 2022 13:05

Its a fact the A.H. Came to spy on the Nazi party in Munich and ended up both joining and become a true beleiver....

Ive come across two slightly different accounts of A H conversiaon:
1} That A.H. that the he would become the party "John the Baptist" forerunner for a Nazi "Messiah" for Germany..
2) That Other is that A.H. was Concinved that he was the NAzi "Messiah" to save Germany and the NAzi party was the vechile to do so....
Which is correct?

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wm
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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by wm » 18 Jan 2022 18:07

Although he wasn't spying.
Karl Mayr, the head of the propaganda department of the army was invited to the meeting but he wasn't that interested so he sent Hitler.
Hiter wrote in Mein Kampf that he and that group chairman (it wasn't a real party) shared similar ideas and had undergone a very similar political transformation so he joined them.

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by GregSingh » 19 Jan 2022 02:30

Ive come across two slightly different accounts of A H conversiaon:
Please, name your sources.


According to Paul Bruppacher:

1919, September 12th
Captain Karl Mayr commissions AH to sound out one of the most inconspicuous of the new parties: the "German Workers' Party" (DAP). AH takes part in the monthly meeting in the “Sterneckerbräu” restaurant. Bored, he follows the lecture by Gottfried Feder, whom he knows from the political course for demobilized soldiers. He only stays because the scheduled discussion interests him. In the course of this, Professor Baumann propagated the separation of Bavaria from the German Reich. AH countered so aggressively that Professor Baumann left the meeting. The chairman of the DAP, Anton Drexler, is visibly impressed by Hitler's brilliant eloquence and praised it with the traditional words: "Hey, he's got a 'Gosch'n', we can use him". Drexler puts his pamphlet “My Political Awakening” in his hand, he should read it and come back in eight days

1919, September 13th
AH receives a postcard from the DAP party committee telling him that a committee meeting of the DAP will take place on September 16 in the "Altes Rosenbad" inn, that the executive board is asking him to attend and that he is already "in the German Workers' Party recorded”.

1919, September 16th
AH attends the committee meeting of the German Workers' Party in the restaurant "Altes Rosenbad" and joins the committee, presumably on the advice of Captain Karl Mayr. In the party where no one could speak properly, Hitler saw the chance to realize himself.

1919, Oktober 3rd
AH attends a DAP meeting at the Sterneckerbräu in Munich.

1919, October 4th
AH writes a report about a DAP meeting on October 3rd: "Location: Munich, Sterneckerbräu 'Leiberzimmer' Persons: 24 present, mainly from the lower class of the population and 2 soldiers. Lecturer: Mr. Feder Attitude: national(...) I ask Mr. Hauptmann to be allowed to join this association or party, because these men speak the thoughts of the front-line soldier. signed Adolf Hitler

1919, October 16th
AH makes his first public appearance as a DAP speaker in the Hofbräukeller. First DAP event that was advertised in the "Münchner Beobachter". After Erich Kühn (Schutz- und Trutzbund) Hitler speaks, his passionate and agitational speech is enthusiastically received. With 111 visitors it is the first success before the public. Hitler then enforced that such events were scheduled more often. He gave several speeches in the inn "Zum Deutschen Reich".

1919, October 19th
AH writes to the DAP: "German Workers' Party, Munich Sterneckerbräu Munich, 19/Oct. 1919 I ask to be admitted to the German Workers' Party (...) My profession is a businessman, but I would like to become an advertising speaker, I am said to have this talent. Since I am on 3./Oct. attended their meeting in 1919, I ask that I also be accepted as a paying enroller. Awaiting your message Adolf Hitler

Linkagain
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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by Linkagain » 19 Jan 2022 03:13

Sorry these were biographis of AH I read them so lon g ago I cant remember authors.... :oops: :oops:

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by George L Gregory » 19 Jan 2022 11:41

Linkagain wrote:
19 Jan 2022 03:13
Sorry these were biographis of AH I read them so lon g ago I cant remember authors.... :oops: :oops:
Do Alan Bullock, Ian Kershaw, John Toland, Joachim Fest, Colin Cross, etc, ring any bells?

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by George L Gregory » 19 Jan 2022 11:51

Linkagain wrote:
18 Jan 2022 13:05
1} That A.H. that the he would become the party "John the Baptist" forerunner for a Nazi "Messiah" for Germany..
Hitler was quite content with being the 'drummer' of the Nazi Party in the early 1920s. Hitler stated in the newspaper DeutscheZeitung in 1921 that he was not the messiah who could "save the Fatherland that was sining into chaos" but was merely "the agitator who understood how to rally the masses". Hitler continued and stated that he was not 'the architect who clearly pictured in his own eyes the plan and design of the new building and with calm sureness and creativity was able to lay one stone on the other. He needed the greater one behind him, on whose command he could lean". Similarly, Hitler told Athur Moeller van den Bruck in 1922 "I am nothing more than a drummer and rallier".

It wasn't until Hitler was released from prison that he began to see himself as the 'messiah' and that only he could save Germany.
2) That Other is that A.H. was Concinved that he was the NAzi "Messiah" to save Germany and the NAzi party was the vechile to do so....
Which is correct?
There's only a subtle difference here, right? The Nazi Party was a party that Hitler liked ideologically and was a way for him to gain power democratically.

He did see himself as the messiah, but that thought (I'm sure some would argue a complex rather than a thought) took time to develop. By the time the Nazi Party started to gain a lot of votes in the late 1920s he truly thought that without himself being there to save Germany then Germany was doomed. Joseph Goebbels did wonders at propagating the 'Hitler myth' or 'Führer myth'. That's why by the time Hitler came to power legally in 1933, the German public believed hook, line and sinker that Hitler was a God who was doing his best to save Germany from all of its problems. It's also another reason why so many Germans believed in his lies and other nonsense during the war, he had given them the good times (1933-39) so it was their duty to be there with and for him during the hard times (1943-45).

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by Linkagain » 19 Jan 2022 14:58

Thanks for answearing the question :milwink: :thumbsup: :milwink:

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by ihoyos » 31 Jan 2022 20:22

Interesting post. I though I was very familiar with Nazi places in Munich, but first time I read something about Altes Rosenbad Inn, this place looks forgotten, or with no interest to trace de History of the NSDAP, But looks was some how important. Any clues where was located?

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by ostland » 31 Jan 2022 21:40

Gasthof “Altes Rosenbad” was located in the Herrnstraße 48.
Unfortunately, nowadays it’s a Garage (Parkhaus).
"Merken Sie sich eins; bei uns zu Haus' sind nur die Mannschaften Ostmärker. Die Herren Offiziere sind Österreicher! Servus Doktorchen!"

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Re: A.H and Nazi Party 1918-1919 query

Post by GregSingh » 01 Feb 2022 01:11

Gasthof “Altes Rosenbad” was located in the Herrnstraße 48.
Gasthof “Altes Rosenbad” at Herrnstraße info comes originally from Mein Kampf and since then has been appearing in many secondary sources.
I'm not entirely sure it's correct, because Munich address books for 1916-1922 list Gasthaus Lilienbad at that address.
“Altes Rosenbad” does not appear in any of them, AFAIK.
So either name was very short-lived, or AH got it wrong.

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