Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

[ljadw]

The german people was not limited to Germany, and Germany was also inhabited by non-german people.
Hitler was part of the german volk like the most part of austrians. He was also of german language and culture. Indeed he was german with austrian nationality.
Austrians themselves know they were german volk. Anschluss was no mystery. Most of austrian people didnt see the problem. As soon as 1918 austrian people claimed to unite to Germany. Deutschvolk is not only an ideological word, but also a reality.

That’s right. The words above the Reichstag were “Dem Deutschen Volke” (To the German People), it was in honour of the German people and not Germany or the German Empire.

Austria had been a part of Germany for centuries until it was excluded in 1866 after being defeated by Prussia.

Ernst Moritz Arndt wrote in 1813 “The German Fatherland”:

Which is the German’s fatherland?
Is’t Prussia’s or Swabia’s land?
Is’t where the Rhine’s rich vintage streams?
Or where the Northern sea-gull screams?—
Ah, no, no, no!
His fatherland’s not bounded so!
Which is the German’s fatherland?
Bavaria’s or Styria’s land?
Is’t where the Marsian ox unbends?
Or where the Marksman iron rends?—
Ah, no, no, no!
His fatherland’s not bounded so.

Which is the German’s fatherland?
Pomerania’s, or Westphalia’s land?
Is it where sweep the Dunian waves?
Or where the thundering Danube raves?—
Ah, no, no, no!
His fatherland’s not bounded so!

Which is the German’s fatherland?
O, tell me now the famous land!
Is’t Tyrol, or the land of Tell?
Such lands and people please me well.—
Ah, no, no, no!
His fatherland’s not bounded so!

Which is the German’s fatherland?
Come, tell me now the famous land.
Doubtless, it is the Austrian state,
In honors and in triumphs great.—
Ah, no, no, no!
His fatherland’s not bounded so!

Very interesting and nice poem.
This poem dated 1813, the time of the french occupation and the war of liberation against Napoleon (battle of Lepizig 1813). This battle is commonly considered as the awakening of the german nationalism.
What is interesting is that untill the date you quote, the battle of Sadowa 1865, the question was "around which country will be united the German people ?" : Prussia or Austria. The victory of Prussia at Sadowa over Austria answered the question.
Bismarck at the time refused to "eat" Austria and let it free. He didnt want to provoke England. He didnt want to appear as the new Napoleon and provoke a war with England. So from 1865 until 1938 Austria remained distinct of the Reich, but it has been always a claim of at least a part of german völkisch movement to annex Austria. Hitler himself regretted deeply that Bismarck didnt unite Austria to the german reich. As a young man in Austria he enraged being surrounded by Czechs or Jews having the same rights than the german volk who was the true bone of the Austrian state. No surprise he enjoyed living in Munich, Germany, as soon as 1913. No surprise he despised the bavarian secessionists in 1918-1919. Hitler wanted above all to unite Germany and Austria, he wanted to unite all the german people. And that's why he provoked the war.

Austrians themselves know they were german volk. Anschluss was no mystery. Most of austrian people didnt see the problem. As soon as 1918 austrian people claimed to unite to Germany. Deutschvolk is not only an ideological word, but also a reality.

As soon ? You mean : as late ? Because before 1918 the Anschluss idea was without any influence in Austria.And the alliance between both countries was more theory than reality .
The Anschluss idea became important in 1918 only because Great Austria had disappeared and only a small core state remained ,of which its inhabitants were convinced that it could not survive .
Other point : a lot of these Austrian people were not Austrians ,due to the immigration from Slavic territories .Not only Great Austria was a multicultural society, but also actual Austria .The majority of the population of Vienna was not born in Vienna .

Anschluss was wanted as soon as 1865-1866 and the victory of Prussia over Austria at the battle of Sadowa. Since then people wanted to unite. In 1918, they saw the opportunity of doing so but the allies didnt permit it.
This wish was so strong and common that the constitutions of the Weimar Republic and the First Austrian Republic both included the political goal of unification, which parties widely supported. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss ... background

The Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would not provoke war with Britain,but would create a strong hatred in Austria and would destabilize totally Eastern Europe : what would happen with Hungary, Austrian Poland, with Slovenia and Croatia ? Who would stop a possible Russian advance ?
And : NO : there was no enthusiasm in Austria after 1866 for an Anschluss with Germany : Austrians did not volunteer in the German army during the war of 1870 with France and the political strength of the pro Anschluss parties in Austria was insignificant.

[George L Gregory]

The Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would not provoke war with Britain,but would create a strong hatred in Austria and would destabilize totally Eastern Europe : what would happen with Hungary, Austrian Poland, with Slovenia and Croatia ? Who would stop a possible Russian advance ?
And : NO : there was no enthusiasm in Austria after 1866 for an Anschluss with Germany : Austrians did not volunteer in the German army during the war of 1870 with France and the political strength of the pro Anschluss parties in Austria was insignificant.

You really need to stop blatantly lying in your posts.

The Anschluss in 1918 or 1938 wouldn’t have provoked war with Britain. The British people recognised the Austrians to be Germans.

There was a massive enthusiasm in Austria for Austria to join Germany between 1871-1918. Many Austrians only showed support for Germany. Pan-Germanism was taught by teachers in Austria. Hitler and other Austrians were greatly influenced by pan-Germans in Austria.

The Austrian partition of Poland happened in the 18th century, what are you on about fella?

[ljadw]

The Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would not provoke war with Britain,but would create a strong hatred in Austria and would destabilize totally Eastern Europe : what would happen with Hungary, Austrian Poland, with Slovenia and Croatia ? Who would stop a possible Russian advance ?
And : NO : there was no enthusiasm in Austria after 1866 for an Anschluss with Germany : Austrians did not volunteer in the German army during the war of 1870 with France and the political strength of the pro Anschluss parties in Austria was insignificant.

You really need to stop blatantly lying in your posts.

The Anschluss in 1918 or 1938 wouldn’t have provoked war with Britain. The British people recognised the Austrians to be Germans.

There was a massive enthusiasm in Austria for Austria to join Germany between 1871-1918. Many Austrians only showed support for Germany. Pan-Germanism was taught by teachers in Austria. Hitler and other Austrians were greatly influenced by pan-Germans in Austria.

The Austrian partition of Poland happened in the 18th century, what are you on about fella?

WHERE did I mention in this post the Anschluss of 1938 or an Anschluss in 19118 ?
About Poland : I said that an Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would create a big problem : what would happen with Austrian Poland ?Germany would not want it,as it had already big problems with its own Poles . The same for Russia .And both (Germany and Russia )would not admit an independent Polish state .
Thus the best solution was the status quo : an independent Austria that included a part of Poland .
And : where is your PROOF that here was a massive enthusiasm in Austria to join Germany between 1871-1918 ?
That Pan-Germanism was taught by Austrian teachers ( how many ? ) does not mean that there was a big enthusiasm for Pan-Germanism .How many Austrian Pan-Germanists did join the German army to fight against the French in 1870 ?

[ljadw]

The Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would not provoke war with Britain,but would create a strong hatred in Austria and would destabilize totally Eastern Europe : what would happen with Hungary, Austrian Poland, with Slovenia and Croatia ? Who would stop a possible Russian advance ?
And : NO : there was no enthusiasm in Austria after 1866 for an Anschluss with Germany : Austrians did not volunteer in the German army during the war of 1870 with France and the political strength of the pro Anschluss parties in Austria was insignificant.

You really need to stop blatantly lying in your posts.

The Anschluss in 1918 or 1938 wouldn’t have provoked war with Britain. The British people recognised the Austrians to be Germans.

There was a massive enthusiasm in Austria for Austria to join Germany between 1871-1918. Many Austrians only showed support for Germany. Pan-Germanism was taught by teachers in Austria. Hitler and other Austrians were greatly influenced by pan-Germans in Austria.

The Austrian partition of Poland happened in the 18th century, what are you on about fella?

I see that you continue to talk about things that do not exist .
Not for the first time .
Austria did not exist before 1918. There were no Austrians, no Austrian parliament,no Austrian government .
There was Cisleithania,where people with a German ethnicity were only a minority ( 33 % ) and most of them did not consider themselves as Germans, and no one as Austrian .
There were in Cisleithania 15 regions each with their own parliament and government and one central parliament and government ( with limited powers ) .
Actual Austria did NOT exist ,but was divided in 7 regions .
Other points :
Not all those with a German ethnicity lived in actual Austria
And a big part of the population of actual Austria had no German ethnicity .
In 1900 Vienna had a population of 1,6 million
410000 came from Bohemia and Moravia
140000 from Hungary
37000 from Galicia
37000 from what later would become Yugoslavia
250000 from other parts of what is today Austria ( not all of them had a German ethnicity )
This means that more than 10 % of the population of actual Austria were not Germans or Austrians .

[DavidFrankenberg]

The Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would not provoke war with Britain,but would create a strong hatred in Austria and would destabilize totally Eastern Europe : what would happen with Hungary, Austrian Poland, with Slovenia and Croatia ? Who would stop a possible Russian advance ?
And : NO : there was no enthusiasm in Austria after 1866 for an Anschluss with Germany : Austrians did not volunteer in the German army during the war of 1870 with France and the political strength of the pro Anschluss parties in Austria was insignificant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Aust ... referendum

After the end of World War I, the newly founded Austria claimed sovereignty over the majority German-speaking territory of the former Habsburg empire. According to its provisional constitution it declared to be part of the also newly founded German Republic. Later plebiscites in Tyrol and Salzburg in 1921, where majorities of 98.77%[7] and 99.11%[8] voted for a unification with Germany, showed that it was also backed by the population.

The plebiscite of 1938 :

Do you agree with the reunification of Austria with the German Reich that was enacted on 13 March 1938 and do you vote for the party of our leader Adolf Hitler?
For 99.73 %

[George L Gregory]

Austria did not exist before 1918. There were no Austrians, no Austrian parliament,no Austrian government .

Austria DID exist prior to 1918. Austria came out of the March of Austria which was also called the Bavarian Eastern March.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margraviate_of_Austria

“Austrians” did exist prior to 1918:

The English term Austrians was applied to the population of Habsburg Austria from the 17th or 18th century. Subsequently, during the 19th century, it referred to the citizens of the Empire of Austria (1804–1867), and from 1867 until 1918 to the citizens of Cisleithania.[/quote{

Poles existed prior to the creation of Poland as a nation-state. Italians existed prior to creation of Italy as a nation-state. Etc, etc.

There was Cisleithania,where people with a German ethnicity were only a minority ( 33 % ) and most of them did not consider themselves as Germans, and no one as Austrian .

Provide a source for that claim.

There were in Cisleithania 15 regions each with their own parliament and government and one central parliament and government ( with limited powers ) .
Actual Austria did NOT exist ,but was divided in 7 regions .
Other points :
Not all those with a German ethnicity lived in actual Austria
And a big part of the population of actual Austria had no German ethnicity .
In 1900 Vienna had a population of 1,6 million
410000 came from Bohemia and Moravia
140000 from Hungary
37000 from Galicia
37000 from what later would become Yugoslavia
250000 from other parts of what is today Austria ( not all of them had a German ethnicity )
This means that more than 10 % of the population of actual Austria were not Germans or Austrians .

An Austrian Republic didn’t exist, but “Austria” did exist, just like Germany existed prior to 1871.

You’re confusing an official country or nation-state and territories.

[ljadw]

An English term is not a proof for the existence of the state Austria before 1918 .
There was no state called Austria between 1867 and 1918, thus its inhabitants could not consider themselves as Austrians .
Most of them did also not consider themselves as Germans,the proof for this is the insignificant political representation of the Pan German parties at the parliament of Cisleithania ( there was NO Austrian parliament ) .
It is not because 9 million people ( an inflated figure ) in Cisleithania claimed that their daily language was German,that they considered themselves as ethnic
A PM of Cisleithania ( count Badeni )was a Polish nobleman who also spoke German, but this does not make him an ethnic German . Kafka spoke German and Czech,but did not consider himself as German .
Most members of the IRA in 1920 spoke mainly English, but that did not make them Englishmen .
Germany existed prior 1871, but only after 1806 when the Holy Roman Empire was dissolved .

[ljadw]

The Anschluss of Austria in 1866 would not provoke war with Britain,but would create a strong hatred in Austria and would destabilize totally Eastern Europe : what would happen with Hungary, Austrian Poland, with Slovenia and Croatia ? Who would stop a possible Russian advance ?
And : NO : there was no enthusiasm in Austria after 1866 for an Anschluss with Germany : Austrians did not volunteer in the German army during the war of 1870 with France and the political strength of the pro Anschluss parties in Austria was insignificant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Aust ... referendum

After the end of World War I, the newly founded Austria claimed sovereignty over the majority German-speaking territory of the former Habsburg empire. According to its provisional constitution it declared to be part of the also newly founded German Republic. Later plebiscites in Tyrol and Salzburg in 1921, where majorities of 98.77%[7] and 99.11%[8] voted for a unification with Germany, showed that it was also backed by the population.

The plebiscite of 1938 :

Do you agree with the reunification of Austria with the German Reich that was enacted on 13 March 1938 and do you vote for the party of our leader Adolf Hitler?
For 99.73 %

You are writing about the post 1918 period, I am writing about the period between 1867 and 1918 .
A lot has been written ( mostly wrongly ) about the friendship and alliance between Germany and AH after 1867 til 1918, especially by Anglo-Saxon authors . They forget that Vienna did not support Germany during the Agadir crises,that Vienna only reluctantly declared war on Russia,etc...and that the policy of both countries was based on their own interests and not on a vague idea of German solidarity .
Vienna was the capital of Cisleithania where German ''speakers 'were only 30 % of the population ,a country which had waged its last war against Prussia and its allies .
After the dissolution of Cisleithania, these 9 million German speakers realized that they could not create their own state and became almost all German nationalists .
But only after the defeat of 1918 .Before 1918,they were better off in Cisleithania .Besides : the Anschluss with Germany was possible only after Germany became a republic .

[Peter89]

Their reduced happiness in the late 1940s was a result of them being together in one country (except Swiss Germans of course - they remained happy even afterwards).

The overwhelming of them were more than happy to be a part of the German Reich until the bitter end of the Third Reich. Mind you, there is evidence that many the Austrians and Prussians still had a mutual dislike of each other.

Their reluctance to identify as “Germans” after the war is because of the atrocities that happened during the Nazi era.

Germans are German speaking people who identify themselves as Germans and share a common cultural affiliation based on the language.

So how would you reply to someone who would say “Hitler was an Austrian not German!” That’s what many people believe these days. It’s based on ignorance and a reluctance to say that Austrians are Germans despite not being part of Germany since 1866 apart from the 7 years between 1938-1945. I guess it depends on how one uses “Austrian” and “German” because he wasn’t an Austrian citizen by birth. I always make the comparison that someone is ethnically English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish but is a British citizen.

I wonder, how many of the people who repeat that sentence are aware of the Bavarian national identity and the amount of Bavarians who would more than happily see Bavaria as an independent country?

Speaking of Bavarian, Hitler’s birthplace has changed between Austrian rule and Bavarian rule so at one point the people born there would have been known as Bavarians rather than Austrians and that’s why he said it was Bavarian by blood in Mein Kampf.

Mozart considered himself to be German but people try and say he wasn’t German but an Austrian because his birthplace Salzburg is now a part of Austria.

If the roughly 100m Germans unite in the middle of Europe, there will always be a war or an economic-diplomatic imbalance.

That’s an assumption based on what exactly?

Can we really reach any conclusions about that idea based on what happened in the 1800s and 1900s?

Austrians are Germans just as Swiss Germans, Donauschwaben, etc. I never tried to argue otherwise.

Braunau am Inn is a strange town, I've just been there this February, and I can understand what Hitler meant when he said that the two sides of the river belong to one nation. Maybe he should have spent more time in Memel? I don't know; but in any case, Germans are naturally different from one another, and that is their natural state of existence.

I make that assumption based on the reality of the continent; in the geographic center of it, there is a nation which is more numerous and industrious than any of the remaining parts. It is the strongest bloc in every sense, and it does not help to keep the balance up.

[George L Gregory]

An English term is not a proof for the existence of the state Austria before 1918 .
There was no state called Austria between 1867 and 1918, thus its inhabitants could not consider themselves as Austrians .
Most of them did also not consider themselves as Germans,the proof for this is the insignificant political representation of the Pan German parties at the parliament of Cisleithania ( there was NO Austrian parliament ) .
It is not because 9 million people ( an inflated figure ) in Cisleithania claimed that their daily language was German,that they considered themselves as ethnic
A PM of Cisleithania ( count Badeni )was a Polish nobleman who also spoke German, but this does not make him an ethnic German . Kafka spoke German and Czech,but did not consider himself as German .
Most members of the IRA in 1920 spoke mainly English, but that did not make them Englishmen .
Germany existed prior 1871, but only after 1806 when the Holy Roman Empire was dissolved .

Who said anything about a “state of Austria”? What a pathetic strawman argument. You rely on fallacious arguments.

“Austrians” is an English word. The German word “Österreicher” existed before 1918. Do you understand German? I can quite easily quote German if you wish. I enjoy making you look ridiculous like most people do who refute your misinformation and conspiracy theories that you relentlessly post on this forum.

That’s not proof that most of the Austrians didn’t consider themselves to be Germans. I’ll ask again, provide a source and not just your opinion.

Depending on the definition of “Germany”, one could argue it existed before the Holy Roman Empire ended in 1806.

You contradict yourself way too often. You claim that Austria didn’t exist prior to 1918, but after 1806 the two most powerful German states were Austria and Prussia.

[George L Gregory]

Austrians are Germans just as Swiss Germans, Donauschwaben, etc. I never tried to argue otherwise.

Braunau am Inn is a strange town, I've just been there this February, and I can understand what Hitler meant when he said that the two sides of the river belong to one nation. Maybe he should have spent more time in Memel? I don't know; but in any case, Germans are naturally different from one another, and that is their natural state of existence.

I make that assumption based on the reality of the continent; in the geographic center of it, there is a nation which is more numerous and industrious than any of the remaining parts. It is the strongest bloc in every sense, and it does not help to keep the balance up.

I suspect that a lot more Austrians today would quite happily identify as Germans if the Nazis hadn’t of committed the atrocities and genocide they did. That’s the only reason a separate Austrian national identity began to emerge after WW2.

I don’t see any reason why Germans couldn’t unify like they did in 1938. Contempt of other sub-groups of an ethnic common isn’t unique to the Germans.

But, the point of my thread is to understand why the Nazis considered Hitler to be a German even though he wasn’t born in Germany and he never hid that fact.

[George L Gregory]

In 2002 Egon Fein claimed that Hitler wasn’t born in Austria but Germany in Bavaria. The claim was published in the German newspaper Bild Zeitung.

278CAA53-D57E-4BC9-B579-155D1B5C4F9B.jpeg

[Peter89]

Austrians are Germans just as Swiss Germans, Donauschwaben, etc. I never tried to argue otherwise.

Braunau am Inn is a strange town, I've just been there this February, and I can understand what Hitler meant when he said that the two sides of the river belong to one nation. Maybe he should have spent more time in Memel? I don't know; but in any case, Germans are naturally different from one another, and that is their natural state of existence.

I make that assumption based on the reality of the continent; in the geographic center of it, there is a nation which is more numerous and industrious than any of the remaining parts. It is the strongest bloc in every sense, and it does not help to keep the balance up.

I suspect that a lot more Austrians today would quite happily identify as Germans if the Nazis hadn’t of committed the atrocities and genocide they did. That’s the only reason a separate Austrian national identity began to emerge after WW2.

I don’t see any reason why Germans couldn’t unify like they did in 1938. Contempt of other sub-groups of an ethnic common isn’t unique to the Germans.

But, the point of my thread is to understand why the Nazis considered Hitler to be a German even though he wasn’t born in Germany and he never hid that fact.

I'm not sure a separate Austrian identity emerged as a result of Nazi Germany. The Swiss Germans, who were not part of Nazi Germany, also have their own identity, although they can be considered Germans as well.

I would phrase it differently. A distinct Austrian identity emerged well before the Nazis came to power in Germany, and even though most of the Austrians were not against joining the Reich in 1938, they would like to get rid of the Nazi stigma to mitigate their involvement in the Third Reich's deeds.

[ljadw]

An English term is not a proof for the existence of the state Austria before 1918 .
There was no state called Austria between 1867 and 1918, thus its inhabitants could not consider themselves as Austrians .
Most of them did also not consider themselves as Germans,the proof for this is the insignificant political representation of the Pan German parties at the parliament of Cisleithania ( there was NO Austrian parliament ) .
It is not because 9 million people ( an inflated figure ) in Cisleithania claimed that their daily language was German,that they considered themselves as ethnic
A PM of Cisleithania ( count Badeni )was a Polish nobleman who also spoke German, but this does not make him an ethnic German . Kafka spoke German and Czech,but did not consider himself as German .
Most members of the IRA in 1920 spoke mainly English, but that did not make them Englishmen .
Germany existed prior 1871, but only after 1806 when the Holy Roman Empire was dissolved .

Who said anything about a “state of Austria”? What a pathetic strawman argument. You rely on fallacious arguments.

“Austrians” is an English word. The German word “Österreicher” existed before 1918. Do you understand German? I can quite easily quote German if you wish. I enjoy making you look ridiculous like most people do who refute your misinformation and conspiracy theories that you relentlessly post on this forum.

That’s not proof that most of the Austrians didn’t consider themselves to be Germans. I’ll ask again, provide a source and not just your opinion.

Depending on the definition of “Germany”, one could argue it existed before the Holy Roman Empire ended in 1806.

You contradict yourself way too often. You claim that Austria didn’t exist prior to 1918, but after 1806 the two most powerful German states were Austria and Prussia.

The Austria that existed between 1806 and 1867 was a multicultural state where the German speaking people were a minority and where the leaders were hostile to any form of German nationalism and where the German speaking population was indifferent to the siren song of the intellectuals who used this to become the dominant class .
This state was not a German state .
Prussia was a German state, Austria was not a German state as long as it was ruled by the Hapsburgs .
You still fail to understand and to admit that for the Hapsburgs German nationalism was anathema .After 1867 they ruled two Slavic states .
And the reason why you refuse to understand and admit this is that you have been indoctrinated by the Sonderweg doctrine ,still very popular in Britain .
There was no such thing as a popular Ein Volk,Ein Reich doctrine before 1933 ,and even after 1933 ,there was a lot of opposition against it .
The opposition to centralisation was and is still very strong in Germany .

[ljadw]

That’s not proof that most of the Austrians didn’t consider themselves to be Germans. I’ll ask again, provide a source and not just your opinion.

Depending on the definition of “Germany”, one could argue it existed before the Holy Roman Empire ended in 1806.

You contradict yourself way too often. You claim that Austria didn’t exist prior to 1918, but after 1806 the two most powerful German states were Austria and Prussia.

1 There are no proofs that after 1867 most ''Austrians " considered themselves to be Germans .
2 There are no proofs that after 1867 most inhabitants of Cisleithania (which were Slavic ) considered themselves as Austrians .
3 There are proofs that after 1867 most inhabitants of Cisleithania considered themselves as non German .
2 examples :
the number of inhabitants of Cisleithania that volunteered in 1870 and in 1914 to fight against France was insignificant .
in big parts of Germany ( less in Bavaria and Würtemberg ) each year the population celebrated the victory of Sedan on 2 September ( Sedantag ) .This was not done in Cisleithania .
If the 4th of July is not celebrated in Britain,that is a proof that the majority of Britons do not consider themselves as Americans .
4 After 1806 what you call wrongly Austria was a Slavic state, not a German state .
And it is not so that because Franz Jozef claimed to be Emperor of Austria,the inhabitants of his state considered themselves as Austrians .Kafka did not consider himself as Austrian, neither did count Badeni who was PM of Cisleithania !.