Berghof Obersalzberg

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 30 Aug 2011 19:45

Mannheim,

Is this what you're thinking of? This is the cable shaft that is just behind and above the retaining wall, on the Adjutancy side.
berghofjul04s.jpg

This is another cable shaft that is on up behind the Berghof site, on the Bodnerbichl hill.
bodnerbichl09b.jpg

This is the concrete water reservoir (?) that is straight up on the hill above the Berghof site.
berghofluftungs1.jpg
Geoff
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Timo-T
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Timo-T » 30 Aug 2011 19:46

Wow, great new photos on the last 4 pages! Thanks to Mannheim and Ernie!

Please, could everyone tell me, what I can see on these following photos?
I can not classify them. Thank you!
Ernie Primeau wrote:Thanks everyone for your kind comments. Some more photos for you:
...

Image

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http://upload.project-j.nl/uploads/1125030027.jpg

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http://upload.project-j.nl/uploads/1618485209.jpg

Image
Timo
Sorry for my english. The google translator helps me sometimes with the translation. I hope you can understand me.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 30 Aug 2011 20:12

Hi Timo,

Those photos all show the Berghof garage, which was removed in 1995.

The second and fourth photos show the top corner of the original doorway, almost buried in rubble, which was one way that you could get inside.

Geoff

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Mannheim » 30 Aug 2011 22:21

Right on both counts, Geoff. That cable shaft is exactly the thing I saw and that is the garage entrance through which I wriggeld. There was some graffiti of a shall-we-say political nature written just above the entrance when I got in.

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Rolbarus » 30 Aug 2011 23:15

Mannheim wrote:I was on the site in October last year and could find no sign of the Berghof garage. I knew roughly where it should have been, having climbed into it a few times (see photo above). I had the impression that it had been comprehensively demolished, either as a safety precaution or to destroy the meeting place of those whose graffiti covered the walls. The three "windows" are not, as I recall, part of the garage and are not where I seem to remember the garage as having been. I have a photo or two - somewhere - of the narrow aperture through which I wriggled some/many years ago. I will post it/them when I find it/them. In the meantime, here are two shots of the "windows" I took last year.
Garage was from 99% torn down, there are just basement
These "windows" are just some part of adjutancy house behind Berghof, but for what were use?

1st pic - garage basement
2nd pic - end of retaining wall behind Berghof on right end is token your picture
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Paulheald
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Paulheald » 31 Aug 2011 18:37

Fascinating photographs - thank you to all concerned. Goeff, you would probably be best informed as whether there is any prospect, that for historical purposes only, excavations would be permitted on the site of the Berghof? There must be a treasure trove of artifacts buried under the rubble. Who actually owns the land upon which the Berghof was situated - is it still the USA?

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PavelH
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by PavelH » 31 Aug 2011 19:41

Sounds nice ,but I`m really affraid ,that there`s absolutely nothing - under the rubble.The ruins of the Berghof were totally empty before the blasting ,moreover I have read somewhere ,that rubble from the Berghof was taken away and the current backfill is mainly from the SS barracks. As far as I know the former site of the Beghof belongs to the Free State of Bavaria.

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Timo-T » 31 Aug 2011 20:05

Geoff Walden wrote:Hi Timo,

Those photos all show the Berghof garage, which was removed in 1995.

The second and fourth photos show the top corner of the original doorway, almost buried in rubble, which was one way that you could get inside.

Geoff
Thanks Geoff.
Now I have a better understanding!
Timo
Sorry for my english. The google translator helps me sometimes with the translation. I hope you can understand me.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 31 Aug 2011 20:06

Right you are, Pavel - the Freistaat Bayern owns the Obersalzberg area. It is administered by the Finance Ministry and the Institute for Contemporary History. In the late 1990s the Freistaat "leased" the area to the Gewerbegrund company, in order to clear out remaining ruins and build the InterConti Hotel and the DokuCenter. This "lease" was for 99 years but since Gewerbegrund is (or was) a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Bavarian State Bank, it's still all under government ownership and control. (The US Army never really owned the land - they just controlled it from 1945-1995.)

There are likely small relics still in the Berghof tunnels and in the cellar - scraps of paper, pieces of the phonograph record collection, maybe other small items easily overlooked. Nothing of any great importance, I'd think. And the pieces of porcelain, bricks, etc., found on the ground there today, or just under the ground surface - they could be from anywhere around there. Rubble from other ruins has been dumped on the Berghof site for years - just in the past 10 years they have dumped a bunch of rubble and fill from the excavation of the SS Kaserne basements and Platterhof Garage onto the Berghof site.

As for research excavations - sure, they could be done - witness Florian Beierl's officially sanctioned work in all the tunnels a few years ago - but I don't think the atmosphere is right for that sort of thing on the Obersalzberg now. The government still seems more interested in tearing out remaining ruins, than they do in any historical interpretation of the sites. Maybe this will turn around in the future ...

Schultze
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Schultze » 31 Aug 2011 22:10

Fascinating thread - some real gems of information here and all concerned should give themselves a pat on the back. I've lived in Munich for the best part of 4 years but it was only yesterday that I managed to get to the site (shameful I know) but I have to say that I am hooked - the sheer amount of TR history that is in the area. So hooked in fact that I'm going back this weekend. To this end, could anyone kindly point out to me the entrance to the Obertalstollen? Any help would be much appreciated.

Schultze

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Mannheim » 01 Sep 2011 00:04

Can't help with the entrance to the Obertalstollen but check out the Information Centre in the former Guest House (see above) if you haven't already: the tunnels are amazing. Vis-à-vis the rubble, the attached photo, taken in 1989, shows AFAIK the 'original' rubble before the Platterhof etc rubble was added. The steps near my son were part of the original building. I wonder where they are now? For what it's worth, the other photo of the soccer field is the parade ground shown above, looking in the opposite direction. The final photo is the same field today. Anyone know if that pond ( which has a lifesaving ring and emergency instructions!) is a bomb crater from 1945?
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Paulheald
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Paulheald » 01 Sep 2011 05:55

Many thanks to Pavel and Geoff for putting the matter of ownership of the land into its current perspective. However, Hitler purchased Haus Wachenfeld, in his private capacity in 1933, from the proceeds of the sale of his book "Mein Kampf". It was later that it was extended into what became the Berghof. Since Hitler purchased this land in his private capacity, surely the land is still part of his estate? Does such a thing still exist?

Another matter re Berghof artifacts. I have a book written by Dr. John Lattimer - A US Army medical officer that shows an incredible collection of Hitler's personal items, no doubt acquired from the Berghof. According to the book these items form part of the "Lattimer Collection". Does anybody know anything about this collection?

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Max
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Max » 01 Sep 2011 06:30

Paulheald wrote:Another matter re Berghof artifacts. I have a book written by Dr. John Lattimer - A US Army medical officer that shows an incredible collection of Hitler's personal items, no doubt acquired from the Berghof. According to the book these items form part of the "Lattimer Collection". Does anybody know anything about this collection?
http://www.collectorsquest.com/blog/200 ... collector/http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&start=15
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

Schultze
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Schultze » 01 Sep 2011 06:41

[quote="Paulheald"]Many thanks to Pavel and Geoff for putting the matter of ownership of the land into its current perspective. However, Hitler purchased Haus Wachenfeld, in his private capacity in 1933, from the proceeds of the sale of his book "Mein Kampf". It was later that it was extended into what became the Berghof. Since Hitler purchased this land in his private capacity, surely the land is still part of his estate? Does such a thing still exist?
[/quote]

The state of Bavaria was named as the major heir of AH's possessions in his last will and testament. This also how the Bavarian state owns the publishing rights to "Mein Kampf".

steather
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by steather » 01 Sep 2011 14:39

I've been reading posts stating that there is very little to no pieces (Bricks/Concrete) remaining of the original Berghof. When I was there May 2011, I couldn't help but notice the size of the trees on the site. I'm not an expert on tree growth, but I would suggest that many of those trees have been there for 30 - 40 years?

I've also read that there has been rubble from other areas dumped on the site (not sure exactly where).

I looked around quite a bit while I was there and couldn't help noticing that there have been quite a few people digging into the side of the hill (between the upper area and the driveway area). It is quite steep in these areas, so I don't think many people take the chance climbing down there.

So, I also noticed that there were a few "holes" dug into the slope, underneath trees that in my opinion have been there for a considerable amount of time. Sort of a what came first question (Chicken or the egg). (Dumped rubble or the trees)?

Is it possible the rubble under the trees in certain areas is from the Berghof?

Steve

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