Berghof Obersalzberg

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Don Hardman
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1936

Post by Don Hardman » 01 Sep 2011, 18:59

I was on the Obersalzberg in 2002 when construction was going on unearthing the SS Kaserne. They dumped alot of the diggings on the Berghof grounds. Mostly above the service road that led up to the house. I found many items to bring home. Floor tile, bathroom tile, electrial items. I found the backdrop for the shooting range and found some bullet casings and links for the maching gun belts.

Also Adolf Hitlers book becomes public domain on January 1, 2016. As per German copyright law which would be around 70 years after his death.

robertmountfor
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1937

Post by robertmountfor » 01 Sep 2011, 21:18

Thats interesting Don, I found some large intact tiles made by a well known german company...forgotten the name. Gave them to Frau S. For her archive. Also a completely flattened mess tin , rzm and ss marked. Full bottles of wine were picked up by a friend after one of the entrances was uncovered near the ss kazerne.
I like others squeezed into the former Berghof basement, the six rooms are undoubtedly intact. In 1988 i scraped the undergrowth off a portion of the former Berghof garage roof that formed the famous terrace...low and behold the original paving flagstones were still there.


robertmountfor
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1938

Post by robertmountfor » 01 Sep 2011, 21:27

I dont know what you guys think, but what really troubles me is people who steal the large pieces of rock out of the sides of both driveways.... Soon it could all be gone for good.
I caught someone attempting to crow bar out a huge rock two years ago...managed to see him off, but of course, its completely un protected at any other time.

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1939

Post by Mannheim » 02 Sep 2011, 08:47

Good news and bad news. Good news: I found some more photos. Bad news: I don't think they help much. First, Ernie's mysterious steps. I found a photo which I believe is of the same steps. However, I don't believe they were part of the "Alpinum" as I had written on the back of mine that the steps were in the area of the Göring house (specifically part of the Göring house). And while I had photographed the Göring Adjutancy, I had not wandered down the hill as the building appeared to be occupied. I spent a lot of time wandering around the sites of the Göring and Bormann houses.
But you need to remember that thirty years ago I was merely going on what I could deduce from my tourist books and from what I had been told by friendly natives. But I am sure that this photo was taken where I was told the Göring house had been. Second, the basement. I found another photo from under the Berghof (there are still nine or so missing). Bearing in mind that my only source of light and navigation was my camera flash, the photo is not much chop so don't get your hopes up for the remaining nine. I am not even certain that I have scanned this the right way up but I think I have. You will notice piles of debris and some graffiti which indicated that the basement rooms were/had been used for nocturnal parties of some sort in the 1970s. I'm off to the pub now but will post some more garage photos tomorrow.
Attachments
AHFGS1.JPG
This looks like Ernie's photo and also one I posted earlier.
AHFGS@.JPG
Under the Berghof.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1940

Post by Annelie » 02 Sep 2011, 20:41

Somewhere in these 130 pages must be this information!

After reading many books and viewing I think everything on the Obersalzberg
somehow missed this fact, or that I have forgotten it. :oops:
it was learned that the entire complex of property on the Obersalzberg, including Berghof,
was officially owned by Bormann. In order to settle Bormann';s personal estate, the Berchtesgaden
Amtsgericht (local court) on January 30, 1954, ruled that Bormann had died in Berlin midnight
on May 2, 1945.
Hitler At the Obersalzberg by JC Boone

Why would Hitler ever allow his house/property to officially be owned by Bormann?

DaveL111
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1941

Post by DaveL111 » 02 Sep 2011, 20:45

I think I recall reading that in one of the books I have. The author wondered why AH never realized Bormann put everything in his name on the Obersalzberg.

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friend_of_Obersalzberg
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1942

Post by friend_of_Obersalzberg » 02 Sep 2011, 21:39

Bormann was never the owner of Haus Wachenfeld or Berghof. It was the property of Hitler. As I remember, Göring was the owner of his house and piece of ground.

@ Schultze: Take a tour guide. It´s not easy to find. And as I was inside in Juli, some rockfall the months before made it a bit more dangerous, to walk in....

Greetings

Ralf

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Don Hardman
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1943

Post by Don Hardman » 02 Sep 2011, 23:39

Martin Bormann was the organizer, treasurer and paymaster of the Nazi Party and controlled its powerful machine. As Deputy Fuhrer and Hitler's Secretary, Bormann signed Hitler's paycheck and managed his accounts. He determined whom and what Hitler saw, and acted in his name. Göring said "Bormann stayed with Hitler day and night and gradually brought him so much under his will that he ruled Hitler's whole existence." Hitler made Bormann the Executor of his will. Bormann, not Hitler, owned the Berghof. "The entire complex on the Obersalzberg, consisting of 87 buildings and worth over one and a half million marks, was legally registered in Bormann's name.

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PavelH
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1944

Post by PavelH » 02 Sep 2011, 23:54

Ralf`s right. Our "friends" owned their houses and some piece of land on the OSB. Of course that Bormann as a regent of the mountain had real majority. According to the Hartmann`s book , Martin Bormann had 1013,649 ha ,Adolf Hitler 8,030 ha and Hermann Goring 1,0 ha.
Anyway ,Ralf did you take a photo of Obertal tunnel after the rockfall which you mentioned. Would like to know ,how is it with Obertal now. I went there last year and honestly I considered Obertal tunnel as one of the most "safe" in comparison with SS tunnel or Antenberg.

Pavel

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1945

Post by Mannheim » 03 Sep 2011, 00:11

Two more: a much clearer view of the interior, taken in 1982, and a view of the hole through which I climbed in order to enter the garage, also 1982.
Attachments
AHFGI.JPG
The entrance hole was in the top left hand corner of the large doorway.
AHFGEEntrance.JPG
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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Johnnyrocket
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1946

Post by Johnnyrocket » 03 Sep 2011, 00:45

DaveL111 wrote:I think I recall reading that in one of the books I have. The author wondered why AH never realized Bormann put everything in his name on the Obersalzberg.
Dave makes an interesting observation here...

I think Hitler knew Bormann had everything in his name, how else could he (Bormann) have done all the development of the Obersalzberg in AH's absence? AH just turned a blind eye while pursuing other things—well if he didn't know—he should have known.

Bormann would have never double-cross Hitler (while he was still alive) like Göring and Himmler (aka: Loyal Heinrich?) did.

How do I know all this...you ask....well while Göring and Uncle Heinrich were "beating-feet" out of Germany...where was Bormann,(?) I rest my case. A little legalese there.

Johnny R. :D

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1947

Post by Mannheim » 03 Sep 2011, 03:38

Re the argument over Bormann "owning" Obersalzberg, common sense would suggest that he was merely the nominal owner. It would have been I imagine easier to nominate an owner on behalf of the Party rather than have an organisation own the area, especially considering that Hitler could with a wave of his hand nullify any agreement, legal or otherwise, in Nazi Germany.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

robertmountfor
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1948

Post by robertmountfor » 03 Sep 2011, 15:03

Bormann was, in essence Hitlers banker. It was Bormann who had the great idea of charging a fee to the postal system via central government for the use of the Fuehrers image on the official stamps. This raised, annually an enormousamount of money. Also he established a fund for industries, or perhaps to be more specific, industrialists to contribute a certain amount of their profit for the benefit of Hitler, and Natiional Socialism.
Hitler had very little interest in the accumilation of personal assets, indeed had very little interest in finance or the people involved, short of National interest.
Even Eva Braun recieved an allowance from Bormann, via Hitler. Whatever can be said of Bormann, he was an extremely talented man, so much so that to paraphrase Hitler, he said, " with Bormann all i need for decisions is ten minutes....everyone else takes days".
"I dont know what i would do without him".

Paulheald
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1949

Post by Paulheald » 03 Sep 2011, 17:10

Hi PavelH,
You quote as follows, "According to the Hartmann`s book , Martin Bormann had 1013,649 ha ,Adolf Hitler 8,030 ha and Hermann Goring 1,0 ha." Very iInteresting and from this it appears that Martin Bormann (Snr) was the major land owner. Although supposedly the Reichsleiter was killed on 2nd May 1945 near the Lehrter Station Berlin, he would be long dead by now from either natural or unnatural causes. Hence, if he left no will, then his estate surely must go to his next of kin - Martin Bormann (Jnr). The latter gentleman is, I understand, still with us - born 1930.

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PavelH
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#1950

Post by PavelH » 04 Sep 2011, 00:44

Hi everybody ,hi Paulheald
I understand what you think my friend ,however Martin was sentensed to death by military tribunal at Nuremberg in 1946. Of course in absentia. I don`t know exactly what was all in the final judgement ,however I`d suppose that there must be forfeiture of property of all accused boys. So in 1946 must whole Obersalzberg belongs to the state (Freistaat Bayern) - again.

Pavel

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