Berghof Obersalzberg

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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Max
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Max » 18 Jul 2014 06:25

It sure got crowded up there on occasions.

Image

I can't imagine that the residence of the national leader [ used to entertain national and international dignitaries] could not manage such a simple thing a turning circle for their cars.
Yes, there was a steep slope to the side but there was also a kerb to indicate to any driver where he was.
Photos show there was plenty of room to turn.
There was even room to pass on the main /lower driveway.
Post war visitors would have seen a much deteriorated driveway; looking much smaller that it had formerly been.

See also

Image
Berghof kerb2.JPG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbPPLzGkgnI
Berghof kerb.JPG
Berghof Drive.JPG
Berghof VW.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1177qPxNA8
Having been there and seeing the widened end of the drive I don't think a VW Bug could have turned around there.
Tons of room :)

Max
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Greetings from the Wide Brown.

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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Annelie » 18 Jul 2014 13:29

Max, nice photos.

Seeing all those cars parked facing toward the road makes me wonder if they considered this aspect of
the parking and turning around of the cars when the Berghof was built? They knew it would have a lot
of visitors so I assume they had a procedure down pat in case of emergency?

As far as I can see people would be dropped off at the stairs?
Then where would the car drive to maneuver the turn around
to then park at the side facing the road?

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wartourist
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by wartourist » 18 Jul 2014 14:41

[/quote]So, my opinion is ... Ziemke's statement doesn't hold up. I'd like to know his source for that quote that Hitler thought the OSB system was a good alternative ... OK, maybe so, because by that time, all or most of the rest of the big military communications centers had already been overrun, or nearly so. OK, yeah, I could see Hitler thinking this, in late March 1945. But that would be because the OSB was by then the ONLY alternative, but not at all comparable to Zossen in capacity.

Geoff[/quote]

Thanks Geoff, much as I thought. Ziemke offer no source for his statement; apparently his imagination got the better of him in this case or he has been listening to unconfirmed tales of the mighty National Redoubt in Bavaria :milwink:

Thanks again
Dan

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Steve Hoog
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Steve Hoog » 18 Jul 2014 16:11

Max

The drive at my house is about the same width as at the Berghof staircase and I never try to turn in the drive; I either back or pull in accordingly, and I have no drop off. Yes it looks as though with some work you could turn one or two around if needed; but I highly doubt that was standard procedure.

Unfortunately everyone is now dead and unless this particular point was discussed prior to everyone dying we are left to speculation.

By the way, thank you for the pics! There are a couple I have never seen.

Steve
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friend_of_Obersalzberg
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by friend_of_Obersalzberg » 18 Jul 2014 22:25

Geoff Walden wrote: "N2" ... The legend grows. :milwink: I'm sure that Florian Beierl never thought, when he first wrote that, what a "secret place" that cellar would become. "N2" has passed into the realm of the "Nazi Bell," atom bomb, secret super wonder weapons, little green boxes, etc. Basically, "N2" was supposedly the code for a mobile radio station in a van, that was apparently parked in the area near that cellar off the Kehlsteinstrasse, in the final days of the war. Communicating with ... somebody ... It's very likely that the cellar we see today actually had nothing at all to do with "N2," unless the Nachrichten personnel took shelter there at night. But that communications van was only supposedly in that area for a handful of days anyway.
Geoff
Hi all,

Geoff, what a coincidence ;-). This picture is from wednesday:
DSCN9524 Kopie.JPG
DSCN9538 Kopie.JPG
I walked from Klaushöhe to Kehlsteinhaus. Many people there, 6 busses up and 6 down...:
DSCN9591 Kopie.JPG
DSCN9600 Kopie.JPG
Greetings
Ralf
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Timo-T
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Timo-T » 19 Jul 2014 00:42

Hi,
Where did you found this bunker? (Gps) I am at the Obersalzberg at the next days and I want to see this too :thumbsup:
Many greetings
Timo
Sorry for my english. The google translator helps me sometimes with the translation. I hope you can understand me.

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PavelH
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by PavelH » 19 Jul 2014 10:34

just FYI, this is not an entrance to a bunker, this is just the cellar under Bormann's Bienenhaus at Landerwald.
and I an still more ten sure, that it is place where the mysterious N2 was :wink: I love OSB`s legends :thumbsup:

P.
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friend_of_Obersalzberg
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by friend_of_Obersalzberg » 19 Jul 2014 12:55

Timo: Ich hab kein GPS. Ich geh nach meiner Beton-Nase :-). Das Bild von Pavel ist super. Genau bei diesem Wegekreuz gehst Du den nicht asphaltierten Waldweg hinter dem Schild. Alle anderen Wege sind asphaltiert. Du kommst nach 100 Metern zu einer Holzhütte, bei der biegst du rechtwinklig rechts ab und gehst in den Wald. Nach ca 40 Metern bist beim Eingang des Kellers.

You walk behind the sign on this muddy little road -you can see it in Pavels photo. After a few yards you come to an wooden hut. Go to the right into the wood, and than always straight ahaed. After about 120 feet you find the entrance.
SUPER PHOTO, my friend Pavel!
Greetings Ralf

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 19 Jul 2014 19:09

Hi Timo,

This is pretty much the location of the "N2" cellar:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.62691 ... 1&t=h&z=17

This should get you within 5-8 meters, anyway. But you have to walk right up on the entrance, because it is sunken in the ground and you cannot see it from just a short distance away. Look for a large flat piece of marble on the ground - the entrance is close to that. But watch out for the holes in the ground, that were the openings into the cellar "windows." Ralf knows ... we almost stepped in one once. :milwink: (Ralf's Beton-Nase is always right!) :thumbsup:

Greetings to all, from Nordhausen (KZ-Gedenkstätte Mittelbau-Dora). Where is was 92 degrees F today (33 deg C)!! I stopped at the Jonastal on the way - too hot to look around much.

Today I explored the northern side of the Kohnstein hill - the opposite side from the Dora memorial site. I was looking for the tunnel exits on the north side. Here is a tunnel exit of the B3 system, which was right beside the exit for the main Mittelwerk Tunnel B, on the north side (the exits to the main Mittelwerk V2 factory tunnels on the north side have been buried by postwar mining activity).

Geoff
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N.C. Wyeth
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by N.C. Wyeth » 20 Jul 2014 04:05

We passed through on a visit to Nordhausen, during our stay in Wewelsburg last Fall, Geoff - right after hooking-up with you in Nurnberg for the sites . . . didn't have time to see much, but expect to be back one day - as I now know there is much more to be seen there, than first meets the eye. :o

Did you know, the St. Georgen/Gusen Bergkristall tunnels are about to be opened to the public? Herr Ortner still sends us messages once in a while . . . and tells us this will be happening sometime soon. Apparently, the Austrian Gov't has been working closely with KZ-Gedenkstätte Mauthausen to make the tunnels safe for entry - with the necessary repairs that have been lacking for many years. We have an invite to come back and tour, and with luck, will be in the neighborhood again next year - on the way, further East. If you beat us to the punch - as you are much closer than we are - be sure to post some photos! :thumbsup:

Oh, by the way - this topic [Berghof Obersalzberg] has been going on forever, it seems . . . and once in a while, I still enjoy checking in on all the new developments - Wow, there are still so many, it seems! After all the continuing changes [destruction?] of that area, I've kind of lost interest in returning . . . but have to admit, after reading all the [seemingly never-ending] posts being made here, it helps re-ignite that spark. Who knows - maybe some day we'll bump into each other again on that crazy little hill, under the mountains? :)
History is the witness that testifies to the passing of time; it illuminates reality, vitalizes memory, provides guidance in daily life, and brings us tidings of antiquity. - Cicero

Jade2014
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Jade2014 » 21 Jul 2014 21:58

Last week I went to the Mooslahnerkopf, and I want to thank
the people that were doing some maintenance overthere... :thumbsup:
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 22 Jul 2014 16:42

That's great news, Jade2014 - thanks for the photo! :thumbsup: That railing was really starting to fall apart when I was there in May.

@ Brad - I will try to keep from hijacking this thread to talk about another site :oops: , But the Nordhausen area and the Dora/Mittelbau site is certainly worth a day visit. The KZ-Lager site is much improved from when I was there 15 years ago - much better museum and many explanatory markers around the site. The tunnel tour is longer now - they take you back to Gallery 44, whereas we only went as far as 45 (the numbers start at 46 on that end). However, the tour now stays on a constructed "balcony" overlooking the tunnel ground level. When I was there in 1999, they took us down into the actual tunnels and we walked along a narrow path between piles of V1 missile parts and other metal junk. Hans has an excellent photo tour of the site here - http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... hilit=dora .

Geoff

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N.C. Wyeth
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by N.C. Wyeth » 23 Jul 2014 02:20

Thanks for the tip, Geoff - now, on my agenda . . . soon. When that happens, I'll drop you a line - maybe it will coincide with some of your free time . . . or maybe we'll luck out with another place, nearer to you - who knows?

Jade2014 - That is a great photo! Nice to see the maintenance work going on. It has been many years now [wow - hard to believe!] since my last visit . . . and along with the [recent] final destruction of the teehaus, I was dealt a further disappointing blow in fog while there. Reading over all these changes - through what seems to be within the past several years - I am still left somewhat deflated about the idea of a future return. But as many of you say, the region alone instills such a vibrant feeling, no matter what you come for . . . that I can honestly say, for all the places I have visited over the years, this is one of those I carry many fond memories for having made the journey - and some day, I still feel as if I must return. :thumbsup:
History is the witness that testifies to the passing of time; it illuminates reality, vitalizes memory, provides guidance in daily life, and brings us tidings of antiquity. - Cicero

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 23 Jul 2014 15:59

Geoff Walden wrote:Today I explored the northern side of the Kohnstein hill - the opposite side from the Dora memorial site. I was looking for the tunnel exits on the north side. Here is a tunnel exit of the B3 system, which was right beside the exit for the main Mittelwerk Tunnel B, on the north side (the exits to the main Mittelwerk V2 factory tunnels on the north side have been buried by postwar mining activity).
It's too late to edit this post, but there was a typo in it. That tunnel opening was in the B12 system, not the B3 system, which was just up the road, north of Woffleben.

scruffy
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by scruffy » 26 Jul 2014 20:48

'Operation Foxley' was put together after a captured German guard revealed that Hitler enjoyed an unguarded walk each morning whilst staying at his holiday hideout in the Bavarian Alps.

That allowed British conspirators a 20minute window of opportunity to shoot the führer - as Adolf Hitler meandered from the Berghoff to a local tearoom from 10am every morning.

"It's interesting to think what would be different if they had gone ahead with the plan."

the sniper was given a German military standard-issue bolt action rifle which he was to use to single-handedly kill the figurehead of the Third Reich.

But the shot was never fired.

Originally set for July, the assassination was dropped in late 1944 when British Intelligence decided that Hitler's frantic decisions were doing more harm to the Nazi party than good.

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