Berghof Obersalzberg

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4981

Post by Geoff Walden » 02 Mar 2018, 03:49

I forgot the numbers on the one CIOS map (I think I used this in a post way back there somewhere).
1 - Small tunnel that runs from the basement of the Türken to where the Modellhaus used to be.
2 - Apparent entrance to the main tunnel system from the telephone exchange in the Türken (Nr. 2 on the last map).
3 - Where the tunnel is blocked today, before the main Berghof tunnel.
4 - The plan shown below.
5 - Unfinished corridor in the Berghof tunnel that was to go to another emergency exit ...?
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N.C. Wyeth
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4982

Post by N.C. Wyeth » 04 Mar 2018, 06:52

It amazes me, how similar the Germans built tunnels all over the World. Much like all those we have dove into, all around Europe - including those on the OSB . . . there also are still many to be found in Cincinnati, Ohio. Beer Baron tunnels. Today, we received a rare treat - do go down deep below the city streets - and explore some more of the recently excavated, early 19th Century tunnels. As of today - almost 14-miles have been identified . . . and 3-miles have been sufficiently excavated. There is no denying that truly German technique of tunneling . . . brick arches, stone steps - and extremely DEEP! Very fun, diving into all of these - all over the World! :thumbsup:
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ManfredV
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4983

Post by ManfredV » 04 Mar 2018, 16:33

Well, we built tunnels for centuries. We need cool places to store our beer. :D
Many old german towns are excaveted in several floors since middle ages. But thats not only in Germany, in many european towns they did so. Remember old roman catacombs or Paris.
About 600 years ago in Franconia (Bamberg region) someone had an excellent idea: they stored beer in caves under shady trees and he thought it would be a good idea to put some benches there and drink cool beer directly from the cave - the Biergarten was born!

headwest
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4984

Post by headwest » 06 Mar 2018, 21:32

This thread is amazing with all the knowledge. I think I may have asked already, but under the rubble at the Berghof do we think the basement (was there a basement?)and stairs are still "intact" ? and how deep is the new ground level vs the original?

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4985

Post by Geoff Walden » 07 Mar 2018, 00:47

Yes, there were basement areas beneath the Berghof, and some parts are still more-or-less intact. There has been some collapsing due to the bombing and 1952 destruction of the ruins.
The ground level today varies across the site. Back by the retaining wall, the fill dirt and rubble is several feet thick, but it gets thinner toward the front. But there is still fill covering the entire site ... as far as I know, no part of the Berghof floor, for instance, is visible now.
It would be a great site to excavate archaeologically!
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CPB
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4986

Post by CPB » 07 Mar 2018, 16:46

Geoff Walden wrote:It would be a great site to excavate archaeologically!
Amazing to think, when the horror of Hitler and the Third Reich become less visceral (as it will, eventually, way beyond our lifetimes of course) the Berghof will no doubt be excavated and on display – just like Roman villas or Greek ruins are today.

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Makarov
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4987

Post by Makarov » 07 Mar 2018, 19:56

CPB wrote:Berghof will no doubt be excavated and on display – just like Roman villas or Greek ruins are today.
I doubt that day will ever come.

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4988

Post by Mannheim » 07 Mar 2018, 23:32

I've been wondering whether (and to what extent) the site has been re-leveled since 1952. I've posted this photo of my son before but I recently found the original and written on the back were my thoughts pondering whether the steps near him were the original steps leading down from the Berghof. They probably weren't but the writing on the back suggests that I took the photo in that near area. I know we didn't stray far from the Berghof site as we had to sneak in in those days (1989). On six subsequent trips I have found no sign of these "stairs".
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4989

Post by Geoff Walden » 08 Mar 2018, 03:34

Hi Gary,
Although I imagine the site was mostly left alone for 40 years, say, 1955-1995, after the US Army left the area underwent several changes. Maybe the most significant of these was the amount of rubble from the demolished SS Kaserne basements and other area ruins that was dumped on the Berghof site from 2000-2001. When this rubble was freshly dumped, you could see that it was really a lot, although it is all grown over and blended in today.

Some comparison photos ... first, the service driveway in Oct. 1999, May 2000, and Oct. 2000. Notice the huge amount of new rubble in the Oct. 2000 photo.
Berghof1999.jpg
GR Walden photo
BerghofMay2000.jpg
GR Walden photo
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BerghofOct2000.jpg
GR Walden photo
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Next, the main driveway in Oct. 1999 and May or June 2001 - big difference.
berghofdriveway1999.jpg
GR Walden photo
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Berghofsite2001.jpg
GR Walden photo
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Last edited by Geoff Walden on 08 Mar 2018, 03:38, edited 2 times in total.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4990

Post by Geoff Walden » 08 Mar 2018, 03:35

Now a view from the Türken terrace in May or June 2001 and the same in May 2004. Wow! This is why I used to tell folks that if they picked up a souvenir "Berghof brick" from up on the level area of the main site after the summer of 2000, that souvenir piece very likely came from some other OSB building, since the Berghof site had been buried.
berghofview2001a.jpg
GR Walden photo
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berghofviewmay04.jpg
GR Walden photo
berghofviewmay04.jpg (69.44 KiB) Viewed 7480 times
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tunix0
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4991

Post by tunix0 » 08 Mar 2018, 09:17

Very interesting photos Geoff, thank you very much! The place has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Your photos give a good overview of how the rubble was distributed.

And the wall at the driveway looked much better at the time. :cry:
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Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4992

Post by Mannheim » 08 Mar 2018, 22:43

Excellent. Just as I suspected! Thanks, Geoff! I did know that in the late 1970s and as late as 1989 the garage roof and part of the brickwork were visible so that started me thinking.
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headwest
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4993

Post by headwest » 10 Mar 2018, 03:06

Wow, thanks Geoff, and everyone

So def a lot of coverage to get down anywhere close to the actual height and original level, much less into the basement or see the real steps.

I don't know if they will ever excavate it but it seems they are marking these sites now where back in the day they totally ignored them?

What is the status of the garage at this point? is it still intact under the rubble?

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Makarov
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4994

Post by Makarov » 10 Mar 2018, 21:17

Two things,

1 - Reading Guido Knopp's, Hitler's Women (2003), and on page 15 it says that Hitler had a Geli room installed at Berghof similar to the one he had in Munich, I can't remember ever heard about such a room at Berghof.

2 - This one seems interesting. Release is scheduled later this year.
staff.jpg
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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4995

Post by Annelie » 10 Mar 2018, 22:19

Thanks for the info on this book.
Never heard of this one and already as you say was released earlier this
year is already sold out on amazon.

That is an interesting bit of info and which might explain the confusion of
Eva's bedroom photo. Now it all makes sense if it was as you explained.

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