Berghof Obersalzberg

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Br. James
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Br. James » 21 Sep 2019 19:54

Thanks, Alvin -- good to see that clear footage.

Cheers,

Br. James

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avid21
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by avid21 » 23 Sep 2019 12:01

..does anybody know the location of the telephone exchange room in the Berghof?

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avid21
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by avid21 » 23 Sep 2019 12:47

...not sure if this query was answered in the previous 300+ pages, but is this photograph matching to the plan (layout) attached. this room(in Red square) was variously mentioned as the 'Bedroom" or the "Library". the layout is of the 1st floor (over the original Wachenfeld house). The discrepancy (seems to be ) is the location of the right side window in the photograph (marked as "A" in Red) .There seems to be a door, instead of the window. this would have led into the slim balcony around/ outside. the plan however shows this is a window. Any leads ???
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Biber » 23 Sep 2019 16:32

I don't see that as being a door in either the plans or the photo. Is it the paneling below the window that is giving you doubt? In the plans note that doors have a line drawn through the center of them.

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avid21
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by avid21 » 23 Sep 2019 17:22

...well, assuming that the photo is indeed of the room being considered, there still seems a doubt. look at the image (both full scale and zoomed in). the zoomed image has two lines - the wall line (in RED) and the 'Panelling' line (in YELLOW). since the lines do not match, there seems to be an offset, which could be because of a 'door' - hence wondering. also check the difference below the window sill of both the windows. the other window doesnt seem to have the panelling below. since this was the old part of the ''Haus', i guess they did not put the radiators below the windows ( as elsewhere), and used 'Kachelhofen'. Maybe they punched the door later. some clients DO carry out changes, once the architect (and his drawings) move out. :wink: ......
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by avid21 » 23 Sep 2019 17:23

hi, Geoff, any idea on the location of the photo (and the room) above ??

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Biber » 23 Sep 2019 18:32

Good catch! I wouldn't surprise me if it were a false window/door that could be opened as necessary. Or was closed off after the fact.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 23 Sep 2019 18:47

I don't recall that we discussed this room before here. We did have a good discussion on the room that is often labeled as Eva's room in publications, but which the period postcard just labels as "Fremdenzimmer" (guest room), but is labeled "Türkenzimmer / Gretl Braun" in a period postcard book - we did figure out which room that one was - the room just above her sister EB's room.

Anyway, I don't see any other room on the plans that has a layout similar to the one in the photo view, so I agree it must be that back room on the first floor (above the ground floor) of the Haus Wachenfeld part. I seem to recall that in one of the secretaries' books, these upper rooms in the old Haus Wachenfeld part were said to be the secretaries' rooms. This one may very well have been a room for the secretaries to work in, as opposed to their sleeping rooms, since it seems smaller. That square block on the plan may indicate a Kachelofen, but on these plans this usually seems to indicate a chimney ... but the same thing is shown in the room below ... must indicate some sort of small Ofen. The upper rooms may have had heated floors, like some of the rooms in the Kehlsteinhaus. Too bad Degano's plans were not more detailed. But nice that they survived!
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 23 Sep 2019 18:55

avid21 wrote:
23 Sep 2019 12:01
..does anybody know the location of the telephone exchange room in the Berghof?
I am not sure of this, and may be wrong, but I believe that the telephone exchange that served the Berghof was in the Türken. When the tunnels were put in, there was a separate exchange in the Berghof tunnel (and also in the Vordereck Flak/Bormann tunnel), but I think there was never one in the Berghof building itself.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Br. James » 23 Sep 2019 19:09

Note #5519 includes a photo of the exterior of this room in Haus Wachenfeld during the construction of the Berghof -- actually the whole side of the building -- and this photo does not include the enclosed balcony around the outside of that side of the house, therefore making everything visible. And I was surprised to notice that it appears that there was indeed a door right there, though it's been closed up! What do others here think?

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by tunix0 » 23 Sep 2019 20:02

avid21 wrote:
23 Sep 2019 17:23
hi, Geoff, any idea on the location of the photo (and the room) above ??
Hi Avid,

I dimmed the photo a little bit. You can now see the three vertical rungs.

And in the plans of Degano can be seen on the southwestern view, that there was actually a door to the balcony was planned. In the drawing you can clearly see the three vertical rungs and that they reach deeper than the windows on the left.

So it will be the suspected room.

Door.jpg
Südwestansicht.jpg

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Christian
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avid21
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by avid21 » 23 Sep 2019 20:58

well tunix (some forensics there), i must admit, i missed checking the degano elevation drawings. the answer was very much there. thnx for the pointer......

as for the telephone exchange - i will be getting the rochus misch book in november, so that might reveal/ confirm the location, as Geoff informed.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 23 Sep 2019 21:43

I went through my collection of digitized Berghof images ... so few show the location that we need to see, and most of those are inconclusive.

But here is a view that seems to show that there was a doorway there in the old Haus Wachenfeld.
wachenfeldearly_muenchenHdB.jpg
wachenfeldearly_muenchenHdBt.jpg
And this view certainly seems to confirm that this doorway remained after the Berghof was built on. (download it and enlarge it)
IMG_1104.JPG
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by tunix0 » 24 Sep 2019 14:33

Geoff Walden wrote:
23 Sep 2019 18:55
avid21 wrote:
23 Sep 2019 12:01
..does anybody know the location of the telephone exchange room in the Berghof?
I am not sure of this, and may be wrong, but I believe that the telephone exchange that served the Berghof was in the Türken. When the tunnels were put in, there was a separate exchange in the Berghof tunnel (and also in the Vordereck Flak/Bormann tunnel), but I think there was never one in the Berghof building itself.
Hi Avid, hi Geoff,

i found a short video about it. It's briefly shown the telephone exchange in the bunker. Timestamp 10:13:43.

http://www.archiv-akh.de/filme/1655#1

I'll look for that in the book by Rochus Misch.

And in the book "He was my boss" you will find the following statement by Ms. Christa Schroeder:

"To the left of this elongated wooden structure lay the so-called Adjutantenhäusel. A narrow wooden staircase on the outside led into two small rooms, which are the bedroom with bath and the working space of the serving aides. There was a telephone exchange on the ground floor."

Unfortunately, I do not own the book, but there is probably a photo of the adjutancy shown with the following text:

"Since Hitler always slept for a very long time, his narrow circle breakfasted in good weather on the terrace of the Berghof. In the background, the annex for the escort command, telephone exchange, dentist's room and adjutants (v.l.n.r .: Eva Braun, Walter Hewel, Karl Wolff, Hans Pfeiffer, unknown)."

So there was one in the adjutant house and one in the bunker? Could it be?

Regards
Christian
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 24 Sep 2019 17:42

Thanks, Christian! I had overlooked (or forgotten) that. This is the photo in Christa Schroeder's book:
adjutancyandterraceteatime.jpg
There is another film in that series that shows where Bormann's tunnel telephone exchange was, and also a remaining telephone or radio apparatus in the Vordereck tunnel (Flak Command section).
http://archiv-akh.de/filme?utf-8=%E2%9C%93&q=bormann#8 (timestamps 10:21:35 and 10:33:33)

BTW, has anyone ever heard any sound on any of these AKH films? They play for me totally silent. It would be great to hear the conversations as the tunnel explorers walk along!

Also, I noticed something in the film captions as I watched the Berghof tunnel film (M1655) this time. Timestamp 10:23:50 is said to show a tunnel that was planned for Hitler's escape, all the way underground to the Bahnhof, complete with wooden slide like in the salt mine! I don't recall reading such anywhere else ... I will have to go back and look through Florian Beierl's "Hitlers Berg" (presumably, the captions for these OSB films came from Florian Beierl - he is among the group seen exploring - probably he was leading). I do remember some Allied soldier in 1945 said something about a tunnel all the way from the OSB to the Bahnhof, but he talked like it was in existence and he saw it. I'll have to go back and find the source of that ... I think maybe we did discuss it in this thread somewhere.
Geoff
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Last edited by Geoff Walden on 24 Sep 2019 20:17, edited 1 time in total.
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