Berghof Obersalzberg

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 14 Oct 2019 07:19

Hello,
.
One more short movie with awesome impressions of and over Berchtesgaden and the Obersalzberg.
Then and Now (Time Slot 02:27 - 03:20)
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bg5-ft-aZM
.
Regards,
Alvin
.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 14 Oct 2019 14:59

More news on the Dietrich Eckart grave in the Altfriedhof.

https://www.berchtesgadener-anzeiger.de ... 24243.html

This article says the trees were cut down to remove any decoration from the grave, in order to keep the grave "plain and neutral," apparently in some sort of attempt to not call attention to it. The city has wanted to remove the grave or lay the grave marker flat and face-down, but the cemetery is under monument protection laws. The monument protection authority recommended removing the trees to keep the grave simple and neutral.

I have to say, to me, this removal of the trees for this reason really seems silly!

I don't think this is the end of this story ...
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 14 Oct 2019 15:08

Another grave marker of very frequent Berghof visitors - Eva Braun's parents. However, I believe I have heard that this marker was recently removed. If this marker has been removed, from a place that is very obscure and actually was hard to find, then I don't think Dietrich Eckart's marker has much longer to last. Especially since the grave upkeep fee is no longer being paid by anyone (according to that article).
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"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Annelie » 14 Oct 2019 15:22

Your right Geoff!

After all this time now they are removing shrubs etc?
Perhaps there is an new member on some board that doesn't
like any reminders of the past? I say this because it seems they
are only interested in certain headstones?

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Mannheim » 15 Oct 2019 05:18

I think the authorities (wrongly) assume that anyone who photographs these markers is a Neo-Nazi and they are afraid of making the cemetery a place of pilgrimage. The day after I had visited the cemetery someone posted on another site a series of photographs taken very soon after - or perhaps on the same day - of almost all the memorials to fallen soldiers which are to be found on the left wall as you walk down to the Eckart grave site. This amount of attention may well have given them food for thought.

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Makarov
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Makarov » 15 Oct 2019 06:03

Not necessarily the authorities believes that anyone taking photos of a certain grave is a sympathizer or something. I think it has more to do with the unwanted attentions certain graves get whatever the reason might be. I do believe that social medias, Google Earth and, forgive me saying this, forums are to blame. Not only because the graves attracts visitors, but also ´cause the graves can be found/seen without even going there.

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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 15 Oct 2019 12:36

Hello,
.
regarding the issue graves, I remember a sequence in a documentation. In summary the whole report is very interesting but I want to point out this sequence: 33:36 - 35:14.
You can see Mrs. Gertraud Weisker at the grave of:
'Gretl' Braun († 1987), her daughter Evi Fegelein-Berlinghof († 1975, suicide) and her sister Ilse Fucke-Michels († 1979). This gravestone and most likely the grave itself are gone.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhLQpjbmPro
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Note: It's funny they are talking about Eva and showing Mrs. Else v. Möllendorff. Time Slot 23:34 - 23:44. (there more such little faults in that documentation).
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Mrs. Gertraud Weisker was the cousin of Ilse, Eva and Gretl Braun. She is part of Eva's "Bunte FIlmschau" and can be seen in a few documentations. She also gave many interviews.
Note: Eva's Cousin (Ballantine Reader's Circle). But I am not sure if that's a good hint, I haven't read the book until now.
.
Mrs. Weisker visited Eva and Gretl Braun many times in Bavaria.
And from July to December in 1944, she 'lived' at the Berghof for six months! Historic is that fact less interesting because Hitler and his entourage was not there and they had - as Mrs Weisker said - mostly a lonely and boring time.
I attached a picture of 'Gertraud' at the Wörthsee "Sportbad Fleischmann" near Munich (today Augustiner am Wörthsee). She swam, splashed around and just had fun together with Eva, Gretl and others. That scene is also part of Eva’s “Bunte Filmschau 2“. Sofie Storck named it simply “Im Wörthsee“.
.
Regards,
Alvin
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 15 Oct 2019 14:28

Although this seems incomprehensible and even bizarre to many of us from countries and cultures that do not do this, it is the accepted custom in Germany and Austria (and probably other places as well), to remove ("recycle") graves after only a few years (it varies - usually around 25-30 years), unless someone continues to pay for the grave upkeep. When this upkeep is no longer paid, then the cemetery is free to exhume the remains and have them cremated or moved somewhere else, and reuse the grave plot for other burials.

This often surprises genealogists from other countries, who travel to Germany or Austria to look for their ancestors' graves, but they are long gone. I can visit the original houses where my ancestors lived who came from Germany to America in 1735, but their family's graves have disappeared - there are no grave markers in the local cemeteries older than about 1950.

This also happens to graves of peole that many of us would consider important to history (Sepp Dietrich, for example). I think it's pretty clear that the only reason that Dietrich Eckart's grave is still there, is that the entire cemetery is under historic preservation laws. The prevailing custom in that area is to hide or remove the remains of the uncomfortable past.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

CPB
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by CPB » 15 Oct 2019 17:56

Geoff Walden wrote:
14 Oct 2019 15:08
Another grave marker of very frequent Berghof visitors - Eva Braun's parents. However, I believe I have heard that this marker was recently removed. If this marker has been removed, from a place that is very obscure and actually was hard to find, then I don't think Dietrich Eckart's marker has much longer to last. Especially since the grave upkeep fee is no longer being paid by anyone (according to that article).
Geoff, so EB's parents were buried in the Berchtesgaden cemetery? I never knew that, wow.

Chris

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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 15 Oct 2019 18:26

CPB wrote:
15 Oct 2019 17:56
Geoff Walden wrote:
14 Oct 2019 15:08
Another grave marker of very frequent Berghof visitors - Eva Braun's parents. However, I believe I have heard that this marker was recently removed. If this marker has been removed, from a place that is very obscure and actually was hard to find, then I don't think Dietrich Eckart's marker has much longer to last. Especially since the grave upkeep fee is no longer being paid by anyone (according to that article).
Geoff, so EB's parents were buried in the Berchtesgaden cemetery? I never knew that, wow.

Chris
.
Hello Chris,
.
No, the parents of Eva Braun has not been buried in Berchtesgaden.
They were buried in Ruhpolding, that's about 45 Kilometers (Northwest) away of Berchtesgaden.
The gravestone and the grave itself are not there anymore.
.
Regards,
Alvin
.

G.K.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by G.K. » 18 Oct 2019 18:05

Hello, I know that the grave of the parents of eva brown end of 2017 was eliminated.
I myself was there in the summer and it was still there. I know it because I met someone who was a grave keeper in the cemetery.
He told me that the grave stone was stored and that he should be shredded. I was allowed to see him and could make a few letters.
The grave was unfortunately removed, because the politician does not like in today's times.

G.K.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by G.K. » 18 Oct 2019 18:28

Here are a few photos.
This is a picture that is 1: 1 big, like the original grave. To watch well, the original letters "Braun" can be seen. The letters have been polished.
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G.K.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by G.K. » 18 Oct 2019 18:32

And a photo from the cemetery in Munich.
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Alvin Y.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alvin Y. » 18 Oct 2019 20:15

G.K. wrote:
18 Oct 2019 18:32
And a photo from the cemetery in Munich.
Hello G.K.,
.
Thanks a lot for these further information and great pictures 8-)
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Honestly I am really surprised to see your photo of the "Braun Sisters" grave . When I visited the Waldfriedhof Munich / "Neuer Teil", the grave had already disappeard. Could you please share the date when the picture has been taken.
.
Maybe I didn't check the right space. Could you share a hint regarding the field, row and number of the grave? That would be great.
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Many thanks in advance and Regards,
Alvin
.

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Makarov
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Makarov » 19 Oct 2019 06:59

Alvin Y. wrote:
18 Oct 2019 20:15
Honestly I am really surprised to see your photo of the "Braun Sisters" grave . When I visited the Waldfriedhof Munich / "Neuer Teil", the grave had already disappeard. Could you please share the date when the picture has been taken.
I'm not a photo expert, but if that Picture of Braun sister's grave isn't fake, I don't know what fake is.

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