Berghof Obersalzberg

[CPB]

Thanks everyone, I'll keep looking...

I wonder if the phone and clock are the originals. I can't imagine so.

Last year the elevator operator told me and my friend Craig that the clock is original to 1938, but the phone is from the 1950s.

Very interesting, thanks as ever Geoff.

[CraigM]

Thanks Max, I'm looking for a photo of the control panel from inside the actual elevator itself.

These are the best pics I have. Reflections are everywhere and they make studying the panel difficult. Unfortunately there's always an operator in the way. These fellows don't seem to like people taking photos (although it's probably a case of who you get on the day and how they're getting on with their folk at home ). I've certainly been told off before: "Out! Out!".

As a kid I used to play with elevators and learn what all of their controls did so I would like to get much better pics of this panel. Maybe if the travel restrictions get lifted some time this decade and I get to go back there...

There are five buttons whose labels I can't read so I can't identify what they do. There's also a key switch somewhere. The elevator has been modernised since the Nazi period and this panel looks nothing like the original. I've never seen any pics of the original. I believe the original car had TWO levels - when it stopped at the top, the upper level would be at the main floor and the lower level would be at the service floor. Double decker elevators are extremely rare and this is no longer one.

Apparently there's a small hidden exit door on the side of the elevator car which gives access to a ladder in the shaft to allow an emergency escape in the event of a power fail. I believe this was installed because Hitler was afraid of being trapped in places if the power failed. I'd really like a look at that. I do believe there's a door but a ladder? None of the elevator shafts I've seen have room for anything other than the car. Besides, climbing 124 metres down a ladder would be an extreme risk to life, especially if the car started moving while someone was on the ladder. I believe there's a door but I'm very sceptical about a ladder! Anyone?

The third photo is the indicator panel at the top landing and the fourth one is the panel at the bottom landing. There's also an indicator panel way out at the entrance to the tunnel.

[CPB]

These photos are great, thanks Craig – I appreciate you taking the time to post those up.

Chris

[CraigM]

Some more info on the elevator: this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTXdYptyCWE has some great footage, taken some time ago (it's obvious that it was from a videotape). In the video's description they write about a "small emergency elevator" in the same shaft. I can't see it and am very sceptical. Here's my assessment of various scenes:

* 0:36 to 0:48 - You can see the elevator's machine room on top of the building.
* 0:58 to 1:04 - The winch and motor in the machine room.
* 1:05 to 1:21 - Opening the landing door using the shaft key when the car is at the bottom (extremely dangerous!)
* 1:22 to 1:30 - Climbing down from the machine room to the landing (also extremely dangerous!)
* 1:30 to 1:42 - View of the shaft and the framework around the counterweight's travel (the counterweight travels up when the car travels down and vica versa)
* 1:42 to 1:44 - View of cables entering machine room above. You can also see the ladder that the technician descended previously.
* 1:44 to 1:49 - The top of the stationary elevator car.
* 1:59 to 2:28 - Travelling down the shaft. Note the counterweight going up and passing the car at 2:13. There's no ladder that I can see, nor a "small emergency elevator".
* 2:28 to 2:32 - An operator standing next to an old control panel - not the same one in use today. Note the key in the key switch.

It's clear that the elevator has gone through an upgrade since this video was shot (different operating panel) and I'm pretty sure it goes faster now than is evident back then.

So, can anyone shed some more light on this small door in the car and how to escape when stuck? When asked once, the operator pointed to a corner of the car, just about floor level, and said there was a door behind the panel. But why? Where would you go if you climbed out of it?

[CPB]

Great video!

On a similar theme to the elevator, does anyone know how supplies and other provisions were transported from the top car park into the tunnel and up into the building itself? I am assuming they were moved about on some kind of [ex-railroad?] trolley?

[Geoff Walden]

I don't know how they did it then, but now they just unload onto a hand pushcart at the tunnel entrance and push that cart down the tunnel and into the elevator. In the original configuration, supplies were put into the lower cabin that stopped at the cellar level as the upper (main) cabin stopped in the main hallway. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the main (only) cabin can now be stopped at the lower level to unload.
I don't seem to have any photos of the carts in use today ... Craig, did you take any? We saw some there last year ...
And, those are GREAT photos of the elevator controls, Craig!

[CraigM]

I don't know how they did it then

They loaded passengers (if any) for the upper level into the upper half of the car, closed the door and took the car up a few feet until the lower half of the car was lined up with the landing door, opened the doors again, and loaded the goods into the lower half of the car. The doors were closed again and the whole lot was driven to the top. When it reached there the top half of the car was at the public level and simultaneously the bottom half at the service level. Neat huh?

I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the main (only) cabin can now be stopped at the lower level to unload.

Yes. There are three call buttons on the operator's panel and they work like any ordinary elevator: ground floor, lower (service) level, and upper (public) level. The operator just doesn't push the service level button when the public is in the car - just ground and upper. I'd sure like to look around the lower level but I'm told by a well known tour guide that there isn't much to see there. Probably just cool rooms and food stores.

I don't seem to have any photos of the carts in use today ... Craig, did you take any? We saw some there last year ...

[CPB]

This forum and the people on it...amazing

[Untersberg]

I heard a rumour Türken was sold but Ingrids daughter said no that it hasn't. I could never quite understand Ingrid when she explained the bank owned the property....or perhaps the land ? It seems as though they were her Landlords. I believe she leased it to a couple for a while...was that right Geoff? It's quite a complex issue that whole landmass area.

[CraigM]

Please forgive me for going on about this elevator but some more information has come to light.

I have some more info about the buttons on the panel that CPB was asking about (see photo below) including heating controls, but more importantly I have discovered that there is indeed a small emergency escape elevator and even a ladder inside the shaft. Apologies for the incorrect info earlier but I just couldn't see them in that video. I'm staggered to be honest. I've seen a lot of elevator shafts and I've never seen or heard of anything like this anywhere else, and there are a probably millions of elevators around the world that go higher and faster than this one and carry many more passengers a year but without such additions!

A big thank you to my expert source.

[Br. James]

Wow! What a lot of information about the interior of the Kehlsteinhaus elevator! I rode in that elevator back in 1999, but I was so amazed by the history of that shining car that I don't recall even noticing that there was a phone or a panel on the wall!! Thanks for reminding me!

Br. James

[Geoff Walden]

I heard a rumour Türken was sold but Ingrids daughter said no that it hasn't. I could never quite understand Ingrid when she explained the bank owned the property....or perhaps the land ? It seems as though they were her Landlords. I believe she leased it to a couple for a while...was that right Geoff? It's quite a complex issue that whole landmass area.

I don't know that she ever leased the property - I doubt it - but on a couple different periods in 2000-2001 and again around 2003, she had professional hotel managers running the hotel and restaurant business side. I was under the impression that they were just working for her, not in any sort of lease arrangement. The couple (Monika and Mario) in 2000-01 did a wonderful job!

Frau S. told me once that she owned the Türken property outright, to include the tunnel beneath the Türken land. Now, she had been talking about how she and her husband had bought out the rest of the family some years before, so that no other family member owned any of the Türken, and maybe she just didn't mention a mortgage from the bank. If there was a mortgage from the early 50s, or a loan to buy it back and make repairs, or even a loan to buy out the rest of the family, wouldn't that be paid off by now? She told me one time how much it cost to run the Türken for a year, and she didn't mention any mortgage payments, but again, maybe she just didn't mention such.

You are so right - the OSB property "ownership" is very complex - there is much that I, for one, do not understand. For example, in, say, 1955, the Freistaat owned all the former Bormann/Hitler/Göring properties, except the Türken (notwithstanding the US Army "holdings," which were not really their property). In 1995, after the US Army left, the Freistaat leased all the former 3.R. OSB property to the gewerbegrund (yes, small "g") company for 99 years. This was for the purpose of tearing down ruins, tearing down the Gen. Walker Hotel (Platterhof), and building the InterConti Hotel (I don't know if gewerbegrund built the DokuCenter or not). OK, that's all finished now, but does the gewerbegrund company still hold such a lease? And how about former 3.R. properties such as Buchenhöhe and Klaushöhe, and even the Antenberg area, that appear to be private property now (not Freistaat)? These are questions that I can't answer ...

[Untersberg]

I heard a rumour Türken was sold but Ingrids daughter said no that it hasn't. I could never quite understand Ingrid when she explained the bank owned the property....or perhaps the land ? It seems as though they were her Landlords. I believe she leased it to a couple for a while...was that right Geoff? It's quite a complex issue that whole landmass area.

I don't know that she ever leased the property - I doubt it - but on a couple different periods in 2000-2001 and again around 2003, she had professional hotel managers running the hotel and restaurant business side. I was under the impression that they were just working for her, not in any sort of lease arrangement. The couple (Monika and Mario) in 2000-01 did a wonderful job!

Frau S. told me once that she owned the Türken property outright, to include the tunnel beneath the Türken land. Now, she had been talking about how she and her husband had bought out the rest of the family some years before, so that no other family member owned any of the Türken, and maybe she just didn't mention a mortgage from the bank. If there was a mortgage from the early 50s, or a loan to buy it back and make repairs, or even a loan to buy out the rest of the family, wouldn't that be paid off by now? She told me one time how much it cost to run the Türken for a year, and she didn't mention any mortgage payments, but again, maybe she just didn't mention such.

You are so right - the OSB property "ownership" is very complex - there is much that I, for one, do not understand. For example, in, say, 1955, the Freistaat owned all the former Bormann/Hitler/Göring properties, except the Türken (notwithstanding the US Army "holdings," which were not really their property). In 1995, after the US Army left, the Freistaat leased all the former 3.R. OSB property to the gewerbegrund (yes, small "g") company for 99 years. This was for the purpose of tearing down ruins, tearing down the Gen. Walker Hotel (Platterhof), and building the InterConti Hotel (I don't know if gewerbegrund built the DokuCenter or not). OK, that's all finished now, but does the gewerbegrund company still hold such a lease? And how about former 3.R. properties such as Buchenhöhe and Klaushöhe, and even the Antenberg area, that appear to be private property now (not Freistaat)? These are questions that I can't answer ...

thanks Geoff yes I believe that is the case she did have somebody to run the place and I must have got confused about her talking about leasing but you're quite right you say the whole place has and will probably forever be a very complex area when it comes to ownership etc

[Untersberg]

Wow! What a lot of information about the interior of the Kehlsteinhaus elevator! I rode in that elevator back in 1999, but I was so amazed by the history of that shining car that I don't recall even noticing that there was a phone or a panel on the wall!! Thanks for reminding me!

Br. James

The original had green leather fold down seats if I'm not mistaken...

[CraigM]

The original had green leather fold down seats if I'm not mistaken...

Looking at the photo earlier of staff loading up the elevator with trolleys, note the green seats on either side of the doors. Geoff did you say once that these were in the elevator? They don't fold so maybe they were along the sides of the car, not the folding ones along the rear? Then again maybe they are too long to have fitted in there? I've no idea.