Berghof Obersalzberg

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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Helly Angel
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Helly Angel » 08 Feb 2022 22:23

Hello! This is my new collection postcard, it arrived today, I share it!
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Br. James
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Br. James » 08 Feb 2022 23:58

Very sharp and clear! Thanks for sharing it.

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Biber
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Biber » 09 Feb 2022 18:25

Must be relatively late. It looks like substantial cleaning up of the site had taken place - note the lack of debris on the adjutancy side.

Duane Becker
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Duane Becker » 04 Mar 2022 17:08

I would like to mention a book that I just purchased called, "On Hitler's Mountain" by Irmgard A. Hunt. I'm sure some of you all may have a copy. But it is a story of a little girl and her family living near the Obersalzberg at Berchtesgaden during the WWII. Great stories of what it was like for regular families to live during that time, and especially on the Obersalzberg.
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Br. James
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Br. James » 05 Mar 2022 16:43

"Must be relatively late. It looks like substantial cleaning up of the site had taken place - note the lack of debris on the adjutancy side."

Right you are, Biber, and I now notice that the entire 'Haus Wachenfeld' section of the Berghof was completely gone at the time this photo was taken! This must have happened because the old Wachenfeld construction was a wooden frame building and it must have completely caught fire, whereas the new construction of the Berghof was brick and stone, and therefore at least the shell of the building survived the fire. What a conflagration!

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Biber
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Biber » 07 Mar 2022 00:44

Is there any info on the clean up efforts prior to the final destruction of the Berghof ruins?

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Max
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Max » 07 Mar 2022 10:04

Biber wrote:
07 Mar 2022 00:44
Is there any info on the clean up efforts prior to the final destruction of the Berghof ruins?

Ruins -1945
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bQxCbyPo0&t=4s[/youtube]
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

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Max
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Max » 07 Mar 2022 11:47

As they progressed slowly up the mountain, they passed a large inn on the left, stopped and asked the innkeeper for directions to Hitler's Home.


Hitler's small private rail terminal

The inmate then, directed them up the hill to the Berghof. They approached a Private Small Train Station at the bottom of the hill - it was built by the inmates. The inmate took Howard inside and showed him a hidden room. It contained a communication center and an entrance to a tunnel leading alongside the road to the Berghof.

Hitler could get off at the Small Private Rail Terminal, enter the hidden room, board the small "Miner's" car and ride all the way unseen through a tunnel to the Berghof, no one would know he was there.
https://www.theberghof.net/

Is there any truth to this?
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Biber
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Biber » 07 Mar 2022 13:40

Thanks for the video. I don't think ive seen it before. Imagine being an average grunt soldier, losing the war, the being sent to clean up the mess at your leader's home!

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 07 Mar 2022 18:28

Hi Max,
Several folks have commented on the Howard Vogel story. Although I don't think it was 100% fabricated, I think it can be safely discounted as any sort of accurate account. There are too many "no-way" things in there. No way was any US Army battalion in Berchtesgaden on 26 April 1945, the day after the bombing, and an entire week before the 3rd Infantry Division arrived there. On 26 April 1945, the US Army was still up in the Munich area. No way some rogue AA battalion could be wandering around in front of the rest of the Army, and find itself down in Berchtesgaden and up to the Obersalzberg! After all, the SS and the OSB staff were still around then.

I think it's safe to say that no way was there a secret underground cable car system (cog railway?) running from the train station in Berchtesgaden to a secret room behind the Berghof garage. And other "fantasy" things on that webpage (like the E.B. 1907 silverware). Mr. Thomas shows a photo of the Berghof that he says was taken on April 26, when it actually shows a US 12th Air Force P-47 on a photo reconnaissance flight in mid-May 1945 (he similarly labels other period photos incorrectly, to support his story). And so on ...

I think there are three possibilities. First, and which I think is most likely, Mr. Thomas greatly embellished what Mr. Vogel told him, probably to make a sale of these relics. If you read what Mr. Vogel actually said in the interviews, for example, he did say he was at the Berghof right after the bombing, but he could have thought the bombing had just occurred because he saw the ruins still smoking (this would have been from the fires set by the SS on 4 May before they left). He did not initially give a date for this. He later said the silverware was recovered in May 1945 (because of this, Thomas made up a complete fantasy about Vogel's unit being on the OSB from 26 April all the way to 3 May!). Vogel didn't actually see any secret underground railway going to the Berghof - he was shown a "secret" room and tracks and told that such a railway led from there to the Berghof. Actually, what I think he probably saw was an entrance to the salt mine across the river (after all, the train station is on the wrong side of the river to have a railway or cable car going to the OSB). From the interview transcripts, it's fairly obvious that this was, in fact, exactly what he saw - the entrance to the salt mine.

It's possible that Thomas heard Vogel say he saw the ruins smoking, and Thomas just assumed that was the day after the bombing, because he didn't know (or discounted) that the SS set the Berghof ruins on fire on 4 May. At any rate, the still-smoking ruins could be seen on 4-5 May all the way down in Berchtesgaden (there are photos of Lt. Col. Heintges of the 3rd Infantry Division looking up the hill at the smoke), and Vogel described seeing the smoke from down in town. It's clear that he saw this on 4 May, not on 26 April.

Another possibility is that Mr. Vogel was simply confused in his memories. It happens. And Mr. Thomas took advantage of this to rewrite the story the way he wanted it. Another possibility (although I think it unlikely) is that Mr. Vogel embellished his own stories.

Whatever the case, there are too many things in this story that are obviously wildly inaccurate.

By the way, I could only find a few pages online of the supposed 72 pages of interview transcriptions. Does anyone know where entire thing can be found?
Last edited by Geoff Walden on 07 Mar 2022 18:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 07 Mar 2022 18:50

Duane Becker wrote:
05 Feb 2022 23:33
I have another photo that I need correct id for: From the EB collection National Archival album 11. Is this the Bormann farm, taken a little bit below the Berghof area?
I appreciate the help. Thanks
Hi Duane,
This photo was taken at the far end of the Gutshof meadow, which is the far end of the golf course today. The main building shown was the Gutshof. The large building at left center was the Hay Barn. The Berghof would be quite a distance out of view to the upper left.
This 2016 photo is a good comparison taken from approximately the same spot. Speer's house and studio can be seen. The residential building of the Gutshof is gone (it was removed about 2005). The Hay Barn got a direct bomb hit and the ruins were removed shortly after the war.
gutshofmeadow2016a (Medium).jpg
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"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
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Br. James
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Br. James » 07 Mar 2022 21:33

Great to have the input of your experience and your presence there, Geoff! Blessings to you, my friend!

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muller1945
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by muller1945 » 07 Mar 2022 22:53

Duane Becker wrote:
30 Jan 2022 23:32
Could someone help identify the location of the photos here? Is this the Berghoff area and trail to Mooslahnerkopf? Photos from National Archives, EB collection album 7. The photo with Hitler walking with the officer to me doesn't look like the trail to Mooslanhnerkopf, but I'm probably wrong.
Other two look like the trail just below the Berghoff, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks...
The first photo is quite a rare view of the first walk way to the tea house. That route was changed at some point because the path ran further up and across to where the golfers now tee off by the road/path.

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Max
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Max » 07 Mar 2022 23:21

Thanks Geoff
I only picked up on the "secret station" - never heard it mentioned before.
You have to wonder about the introduction of an "innkeeper" later referred to as the " inmate".
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

Duane Becker
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Duane Becker » 08 Mar 2022 00:21

Thanks Geoff and Muller1945 for the id's on the photos...

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