Propaganda-Useful or Superfluous?

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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hauptmannn
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Propaganda-Useful or Superfluous?

Post by hauptmannn » 02 May 2004 04:05

Hello! :)

I just wanted to know people's opinion whether propaganda was needed during the war? Although it hid many of the facts about the war mainly the failures of the wehrmact from the citizens which if known could create a wave of anti-war attitudes and defeatist comments. But i was also wondering if it was better than people know the truth. If the Germans lost a battle with heavy losses and the german citizens knew about it, perhaps they will work harder for the war effort and be more committed to their work in the hope that they could win other battles and avenge the failures of the wehrmact? Giving facts to the people is surely a better way than to lie to them and later on when they find out that they were being lied to all this time, they will lose trust, become less committed and more eager for the war to end.

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maxxx
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Post by maxxx » 03 May 2004 10:57

propaganda is not in the first line about keeping the truth from the people but keeping the spirit up. even a defeat could be turned into a victory by the german propaganda (for example stalingrad). The slogan was "They died so germany can live!" Of course it is a lie, but how sophisticated! Only a few asked why somebody was "defending" german a few thousend miles from the border...
The simple citizen always wants to be on the winning side. So you have to make up victories when you don´t have them.

Propaganda is a very powerful instrument. Controll the media and you controll the mind of the people. Until today only a few can play this instrument so well like goebbels did. Why did the nazi try to have a radio in every home in the reich, even gave away, simple, but cheap radios (volksempfänger)?
To reach every home with their propaganda. Notice, that this radios were only able to receive german stations, foreign stations (with different,neutral news or allied propaganda) you you could not tune in.

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hauptmannn
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Post by hauptmannn » 03 May 2004 13:46

Thanks maxxx and (if its not too late) welcome to the forum :)

Witch-King of Angmar
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Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 04 May 2004 20:45

maxxx wrote:To reach every home with their propaganda. Notice, that this radios were only able to receive german stations, foreign stations (with different,neutral news or allied propaganda) you you could not tune in.
Ever saw one? I did, a model from 1938 and other from 1942, both Telefunken. Crude design indeed, albeit built in a handsome wooden case, but, like all normal radios, it had a tuning range, it could be tuned on various frequencies, either German or foreign.

~The Witch-King of Angmar

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maxxx
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Post by maxxx » 05 May 2004 18:29

well, try this on a regular volksempfänger. (the one with the official swastika on it)
And dont forget ,during ww2 many stations out of germany were run by wehrmacht or propaganda ministry (most famous Soldatensender Belgrad and many more)
i even have seen a prefabricated station card to put over the one printed on a (pre-war) radio to cover enemy stations, so I think at least some manufacturers must have provided them.

i dont know if this was ever by offical order?

Karl
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Post by Karl » 06 May 2004 10:26

Witch-King of Angmar wrote:it had a tuning range, it could be tuned on various frequencies, either German or foreign.

~The Witch-King of Angmar
Yes, though I think this was illegal.

varjag
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Post by varjag » 08 May 2004 11:59

PROPAGANDA is of extreme importance - not only in war but also in peace. As witnessed by it's incessant use in Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union and Italy b u t with the western allies not far behind! Little has changed even today...and may I quote one of it's most able practitioners about it's nature;

"propaganda.......should ignore any question of objectivity"

Adolf Hitler; Mein Kampf

JLEES
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Propaganda

Post by JLEES » 10 May 2004 17:49

Typically in warfare propaganda is the first thing mobilized and the last to be demobilized. It's a very important element.
James

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » 10 May 2004 21:07

If you have any doubts about the efficacy of propaganda, visit some of the threads just in this forum, that deal with the unpleasantries in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. You will see how those who tell the tale have managed to influence feeling and opinion on both sides of the arguments! :wink:

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Reich Ruin
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Post by Reich Ruin » 10 May 2004 21:12

Exactly ! Even when Im reading stuff today that is totally against my view on life ( ie: holocaust denial, republican/conservative propaganda,etc ) I still get a feeling there telling me a shred of truth.... :x

Brotherhood of the Cross
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general comments

Post by Brotherhood of the Cross » 16 May 2004 11:52

The BIG question is 'Why propaganda works?' Undoubtely it is as important as the actual warfare so its worth looking at the way it influences civillians and soldiers all-together. Propaganda and manipulation go hand in hand but still they need to address to 'something' in order to work. And although it is well concealed under apparances and poluted with various influences propaganda can give hints about what 'lies beneath'. But one must extrapolate carefuly...

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maxxx
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Post by maxxx » 16 May 2004 12:36

does not advertising work just the same way?

i think people in totalitarian system develop a special sense for reading between the lines of propaganda. People in not so (or not so openly) toalitarian systems are more easily affected.

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PropCollector
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Post by PropCollector » 22 May 2004 12:20

Witch-King of Angmar wrote:
maxxx wrote:To reach every home with their propaganda. Notice, that this radios were only able to receive german stations, foreign stations (with different,neutral news or allied propaganda) you you could not tune in.
Ever saw one? I did, a model from 1938 and other from 1942, both Telefunken. Crude design indeed, albeit built in a handsome wooden case, but, like all normal radios, it had a tuning range, it could be tuned on various frequencies, either German or foreign.

~The Witch-King of Angmar
As far as I know, the German 'volks'receivers were Medium wave and were blocked to only a very few frequencies. This must be correct as the Germans did not have to turn in their radiosets (Volksempfänger) like the people in occupied countries did have to do (they had other brands of recievers that COULD receive more frequencies).

The black allied radio transmissions to Germany were in the beginning of the war only on short wave (by lack of other transmitters). Short wave could only be received by short wave receivers that were available in the German army. But the allied did use these short wave transmission anyhow to reach at least the German soldier - in the hope they would spread to allied black news to civilians.

Later in war, the allies in England could make use of a very powerfull medium wave transmitter (bought in the US) to send black radio progs on Medium wave on the same frequencies the Germans used for their own transmissions. They even went so far as to break into the German transmissions and overpower them (push them out).

Interesting reading stuff on this: Sefton Delmers "Black Boomerang" and Elic Howes "The black Game". A version of Black Boomerang online can be found at:
http://www.seftondelmer.co.uk/

When reading this, you may also get an idea about the effects of propaganda.

There are also some interogation reports of German prisoners of war known in which many state that they often believed in propaganda by the enemy. This is evident as the Allied did not need to lie as much as the Germans had to do in there propaganda. The more you can speak the truth in your propaganda, the more you are believed - and the more effect the propaganda will have.... (my opinion)

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