Nietzsche on Jews and Judaism etc

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armour
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Nietzsche on Jews and Judaism etc

Post by armour » 22 Jun 2004 05:55

Were there any attempts to edit or censor some of Nietzsche's works in the 3d reich especially in which he speaks fabourably of Judaism ?
The Jews are the very opposite of decadents: they have simply been forced into appearing in that guise, and with a degree of skill approaching the non plus ultra of histrionic genius they have managed to put themselves at the head of all decadent movements (--for example, the Christianity of Paul--), and so make of them something stronger than any party frankly saying Yes to life.
From "Der Antichrist" 1888

He was also known for his criticism of everything German:
I shall never admit that a German can understand what music is. Those musicians, the greatest of them, who are called German, are all foreigners, Slavs, Croats, Italians, Dutchmen-or Jews; or else, like Heinrich Schiitz, Bach, and Hdndel, they are Germans of a strong race, a type now extinct. I myself have still enough of the Pole in me to let all other music go, if only Chopin is left to me.
From "Ecce Homo"

Nietzshe was a very well known Anti-Anti-Semite. He once declared that all anti-semites should be expelled from Germany.
How exactly such a clearly anti-Nazi philosopher was so well advertised and revered by most Nazis...?

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Post by WHEELER » 22 Jun 2004 14:25

Because Nietzche was a Nihilist and the Nazi's were nihilists. He attacked Christianity and Truth. The Nazi's believed in neither.

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Post by Phil V » 22 Jun 2004 14:37

Nietzche was used by the Nazis.

They (naturally) only used certain elements that could enforce / evidence their own propaganda ends.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... =nietzsche

MB

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Post by armour » 24 Jun 2004 08:07

Because Nietzche was a Nihilist and the Nazi's were nihilists. He attacked Christianity and Truth. The Nazi's believed in neither.
Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist... What exactly do you mean by Truth? In Christian sense?
Nietzche was used by the Nazis.

They (naturally) only used certain elements that could enforce / evidence their own propaganda ends.

Agreed. Did they censor any of his works though ?
Thanks for the link.

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Post by Brotherhood of the Cross » 26 Jun 2004 11:39

armour wrote:
Because Nietzche was a Nihilist and the Nazi's were nihilists. He attacked Christianity and Truth. The Nazi's believed in neither.
Both Nietzche and Nazis were extremists.
Nihilism - "brother" of fanatism and "cousin" of denial.

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Post by ohrdruf » 26 Jun 2004 21:08

The bombing of the German cities by Allied air forces was Extremist but considered justified by the end to be achieved. Nietzsche was not the most important established philosopher for Nazi ideology and was probably approved of only in parts: Hitler's guiding light amongst western philosophers was Schopenhauer.

Hitler would have agreed that he was an Antichrist because undoubtedly his ultimate purpose was to destroy Judeo-Christianity. One cannot actually know that Judeo-Christianity is Truth. One may have Faith that it is, but one does not Know.

Hitlerism alleged that Judeo-Christianity is a false cult, and there is no heaven, but only endless reincarnation. If that is true, and it was ultimately his true objective to destroy Christianity and replace it with what was basically the New Druidism, runes and all, that may be extremism, doubtfully nihilism, but the way forward for humanity is all that matters in the long run, even if delivery in the initial stages came with the jackboot.

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Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 27 Jun 2004 11:11

Anti-Semitism was a second-rate element in the National Socialist ideology(if one assumes there was an ideology). The basic outline of Nietzsche's thought were held unaltered.

BTW for Nietzsche was more glamorous to claim he descended from Polish noblemen than German commoners :P

~The Witch-King of Angmar

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Post by Ottens » 27 Jun 2004 13:10

Nietzsche wents "nuts" in 1888.

July 1888. German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche is working on his new book, what later would become known under the name 'Der Wille zur Macht', as his early insanity started setting in. In this work, Nietzsche claimed the nihilism, derived from nil (nothing), was coming. Around the same time as Nietzsche's mental condition got worse, Adolf Hitler was fathered. Nine months later, in April 1889, Hitler was born, and Nietzsche had mentally collapsed.

When Hitler's was in his sixth month, Nietzsche wrote he knew his destiny; his name would once be connected with the memory of something monstrous, a crisis like there had never been before, the largest moral dilemma, a decision, against everything that had been believed, demanded, sanctified until than.

The question is whether the precise convergence of Nietzsche's perishing and Hitler's arising are still coincidental. They both became 56 years old, and Nietzsche's insanity lasted just as long as Hitler's reign; 12 years.

Nietzsche has become famous because of his statement God had died. After the dead of God, there was the 'Nothing' with Hitler's his only born son. In a way, he never existed; the absolute, logical anti-Christ.

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Post by ohrdruf » 27 Jun 2004 16:27

Ottens

You have stumbled across the sacred number of which Cardinal Ratzinger stated a few years ago: "Nobody in the Church can understand the significance of this number, but obviously it is extremely important for some reason." You must discard all these silly western intellectual ideas of right and wrong which you harbour and concentrate solely on solving the mystery of that sacred number. Then you will see that the things I have written are true. When you give up, come through to me on the personal E-mail link.

Ohrdruf

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Post by Ottens » 28 Jun 2004 17:44

You don't have your E-Mail in your profile. :wink:

Which number do you mean? 12? 56? 1888?

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Post by ohrdruf » 28 Jun 2004 18:14

Ottens

At the foot of every message on the forum is a box marked "PM". This is for private communications with the message author. Write your message to me and it will show up in my private E-mail box.

Ohrdruf

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armour
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Post by armour » 28 Jun 2004 23:23

Nietzsche wents "nuts" in 1888.

July 1888. German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche is working on his new book, what later would become known under the name 'Der Wille zur Macht', as his early insanity started setting in. In this work, Nietzsche claimed the nihilism, derived from nil (nothing), was coming. Around the same time as Nietzsche's mental condition got worse, Adolf Hitler was fathered. Nine months later, in April 1889, Hitler was born, and Nietzsche had mentally collapsed.

When Hitler's was in his sixth month, Nietzsche wrote he knew his destiny; his name would once be connected with the memory of something monstrous, a crisis like there had never been before, the largest moral dilemma, a decision, against everything that had been believed, demanded, sanctified until than.

The question is whether the precise convergence of Nietzsche's perishing and Hitler's arising are still coincidental. They both became 56 years old, and Nietzsche's insanity lasted just as long as Hitler's reign; 12 years.

Nietzsche has become famous because of his statement God had died. After the dead of God, there was the 'Nothing' with Hitler's his only born son. In a way, he never existed; the absolute, logical anti-Christ.
That thought did cross my mind although I discarded it as a mere coincidence... In 1888 Nietzsche was working on "Der Antichrist", here are some passages from the preface:
This book belongs to the most rare of men. Perhaps not one of them is yet alive. It is possible that they may be among those who understand my "Zarathustra": how could I confound myself with those who are now sprouting ears?--First the day after tomorrow must come for me. Some men are born posthumously.
Pay attention to "Perhaps not one of them is yet alive" , Hitler was born 6 months later, I guess another coincidence ? :) Hitler revered Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" and had "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" issued to every soldier in the German army, BTW I didn't check that fact - truth or fiction?

"Der Antichrist" was written bluntly and was mainly directed against Christianity as a decandent movement. Some people believe Nietzsche's sister Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche edited some of Nietzsche's later works as she was the one taking care of him during his last years when he was mentally ill, she was the one who published his works in 20th century. I have read some of Nietzsche's eariler works...and I was almost left with an impression that it was somebody else who wrote "Der Antichrist" and not Nietzsche, although Nietzsche was experiencing some kind of strange type of Euphoria when he was writing his works in 1888 - perhaps that would explain it . Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche was a well known Nazi supporter in 20th century and helped them with their propaganda campaigns. I would personally strongly disagree with Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche's statement that Nietzsche would have favoured the Germans in WW1 as he was a well known ciritic of everything German and Especially German Nationalism. I think that it was mainly his sister responsible for the link between Nazis and Nietzsche because Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche only presented her brother as She would have wanted him to be - a Nazi.


In my opinion Nietzsche was never a nihilist and in fact is considered today as a father of existential movement which is known to be non-nihilist.

I was not aware that Nietzsche's mental collapse and Hitler's birth happened on the exact same day (the same year...no doubt)... Are you sure about that?

I think Nietzsche's writing of his destiny in 1889 could have easily been fabricated by his own sister and in 1920's ...don't you think?

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Post by armour » 28 Jun 2004 23:35

In January 1889 Nietzsche collapsed on a street in Turin, Italy, and from that moment he rapidly descended into insanity. He remained in a condition of mental and physical paralysis until his death in Weimar on August 25, 1900.
As you can see Nietzsche's collapse happened in January of 1889 and Hitler was born in April...not that precise.

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Post by Ottens » 29 Jun 2004 09:40

You should read the book "Siegfried" by the Dutch athor Harry Mulisch.

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