Nazism against Catholics?

T.R.Searle · Post by **T.R.Searle** » 17 Sep 2002 23:49

The Nazis preached the superiority of the Aryan master race led by an infallible Führer (leader) who would establish a pan-Germanic Third Reich lasting a thousand years while annihilating the Jews and Communists, the main scapegoats for all Germany's problems. Millions of Jews, Poles, Russians, gypsies, Catholics, gays and handicapped people were interned in concentration camps where they died or were executed or experimented on. Millions more were used for forced labor.

fom this site http://skepdic.com/nazism.html

Why were the Nazis against Catholics? Were they just after the priest or everyone? Seeing many top Nazis were Catholics anyway,such as Joseph Dietrich. And wasnt Hitler origionaly Catholic?

T.R.Searle

Robert Zeller · Post by **Robert Zeller** » 18 Sep 2002 00:04

I generally think that it's catholics that are full of it and want no association with the Reich that say that,

The Pope supported Nazi's Germany along with the vatican, and catholocism was emerced into Nazism, plus many Nazi's (including Hitler) were cathlic, or at least claimed to be,

Phil V · Post by **Phil V** » 18 Sep 2002 02:06

The Nazi regime saw organised Religion as a threat to the ideals of National Socialism. The Nazi's believed in absolute dedication to the ideals of the National Socialist organisation. Catholicism (as a popular and organised Religion) was seen as a threat in the sense that Germans may give themselves to Christian values in preference to the ideals National Socialism and God as opposed to Hitler.

Hitler and the Nazi regime made several attacks on the Catholic Church in Germany. However, a majority of these attacks were verbal. No great and substained attack was employed (as it was with the Jews).

A fair percentage of Germans were Catholics (or Christians of some persuasion) so a serious and sustained attack would not be in Hitlers best interest.

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 18 Sep 2002 03:23

The Nazis believed in separation of Church and State and some aspects of German society in those times were still controlled by either the Catholics or the Lutherans. There were also some Churchmen that were disloyal to the State, especially during wartime, and were accordingly purged or incarceated. That's not quite the same thing as purging the Christian churches, as was done in Russia to a high degree. Also, the Jehovah Witnesses refused to work or fight for Germany during the war and many were therefore imprisoned and martyred, as the Third Reich did not recognize the principle of conscientious objection.

Daniel L · Post by **Daniel L** » 18 Sep 2002 08:12

An amount of chritians were imprisoned in Sachsenhausen. Altough few measurements were taken against the Church I don't think one should underestimate them. Didn't hitler want to introduce the old viking religions?

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 18 Sep 2002 10:51

charlie don't surf wrote:Didn't hitler want to introduce the old viking religions?

No, that was Himmler's hobby and nothing more. Hitler was an agnostic Catholic. Something like 40% of the SS were Catholic and the Wallonien Legion, at least, even had Catholic chaplains.

Daniel L · Post by **Daniel L** » 18 Sep 2002 11:53

I don't think so, I'm pretty sure he wasn't a catholic. Can you post some proof for your statement?

regards

Rob S. · Post by **Rob S.** » 18 Sep 2002 14:18

Charlie in America not very many catholics actually *believe* in their religion of practice; it is done more out of tradition. Scott is referring to Hitler as to having a Catholic background, not a Catholic belief system.

T.R.Searle · Post by **T.R.Searle** » 18 Sep 2002 15:46

Well i'm a Protestant (Anglican/Lutheren) and I dont practice my religion very often also. So I guess Hitler put his origional religious backround behind him and did what was nessesary for the Nazi Party. Anyways did they attack any of the Lutherens in the country also?

Also thanx for all the information everyone

T.R.Searle

Karl da Kraut · Post by **Karl da Kraut** » 18 Sep 2002 19:04

Hitler was, officially, a Catholic. He paid his "Kirchensteuer" (church tax) to his death. In truth, of course, he was an atheist, although vaguely believing in some kind of "Vorsehung" (fate or destiny).

The Nazis didn't have a unified approch towords religion. Many were strict atheists [like Rosenberg ("Der Mythus des 20. Jahrhunderts"), the self-proclaimed Nazi chief ideologist), some (for example Himmler) contemplated to revive Norse mythology. Others favored a Nazi version of Protestantism ("Reichsbischof" Müller).

"The" Nazis considered the Roman-Catholic church as an enemy. The GeStaPo, for example, defined as their main-adversaries: Jews, Communists, the Roman-Catholic church. This is no surprise as its universial self-image was in contradiction to the Nazi ideology. Also remember the "Kulturkampf" (combat of cultures) in the early 2nd Reich. Moreover, in the Weimarer Republik the Catholics possesed an own party the Zentrum (Center) party, which was quite stable at 15%-20% in elections and loyal to the constitution of Weimar. In Bavaria there was a different Catholic party (BVP). Except for Bavaria, the Nazi-votes were below-average in the Catholic areas of Germany.

Karl da Kraut · Post by **Karl da Kraut** » 18 Sep 2002 19:20

@ Von Manstein

The Protestant churches split up in a pro-Nazi "Deutsche Kirche" (German Church) under "Reichsbischof" Müller and an opposing "Bekennende Kirche" (Confessing Church).

The Nazis persecuted everybody (openly) opposing them- Christians and priests were, of course, no exception.

The Nazis also repressed the different Churches in systematical ways. A good example would be their struggle against the Christian youth organizations (that were finally prohibited).

Hitler, however, respected the power of the churches, especially the Roman-Catholic one. Thus they should ultimatively be dealt with after the war.

viriato · Post by **viriato** » 18 Sep 2002 21:29

Karl da Kraut wrote:

Except for Bavaria, the Nazi-votes were below-average in the Catholic areas of Germany.

There was a great divide in Bavaria. Franconia in the North and Pfalz in the West did give the majority of the votes during the thirties to the NSDAP. Not so Upper and Lower Bavaria. In these regions the most voted party was the BVP an allied party of the Zentrum. Curiosly Upper and Lower Bavaria were overwhelming catholic, Franconia had a strong number of protestants. So even in Bavaria the catholics showed to be a hard constituency to be won by the NSDAP.

See too these (very good) sites about elections in Germany during the Weimar period:

http://www.gonschior.de

weimarer-wahlen.de

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 19 Sep 2002 20:28

For those who are interested in this subject, the Rutgers Journal of Law & Religion has started posting WWII era documents, collected by "Wild Bill" Donovan of the OSS, on the Nazi Party and German religion at:
http://www-camlaw.rutgers.edu/publicati ... -religion/

Thorfinn · Post by **Thorfinn** » 19 Sep 2002 22:06

Daniel L · Post by **Daniel L** » 19 Sep 2002 22:35

I
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me

II
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

III
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain

IV
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy

V
Honour thy father and thy mother

VI
Thou shalt not murder

VII
Thou shalt not commit adultery

VIII
Thou shalt not steal

IX
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

X
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's

Sending catholic priests to concentration camps doesn't seem very christian to me.