Hitlers Swastika, where did he get it?

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
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deathdealerdelta
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Hitlers Swastika, where did he get it?

Post by deathdealerdelta » 03 Apr 2006 22:25

Hello all,
I know that there has been some reference to Thor having something to do with swastikas and I was watching a program on the History International channel about the evolution of hunting and saw a swastika on one of the first recorded bows ever made. I also know that the swastika has been something to ward of evil spirits. I also know that the US military had a swastika for one of their unit emblems until the NAZIS came around. India also used the swastika on a shipping flag of theirs.

But where did Hitler get the idea from?

Was it from Thor, or something else?

The pics are of the shipping flag and of the US National Guards 45th Infantry Divisions patch.

-Ray
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Kaiserjäger
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The Swastika

Post by Kaiserjäger » 04 Apr 2006 19:16

The Swastika is un old symbol of luck, and as you sayd... the swastika is an old norse symbol of the sun. it was used on thors Belt.
But in a book (cant remember what book) it is told that the swastika was used by the Thule society...

more info soon

Kaiserj.

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WOLF1
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Post by WOLF1 » 04 Apr 2006 19:44

Do a forum search there is a huge topic on it...dicussed many times.

Cheers

Wolf1 (John)

grekiskaGripen
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Post by grekiskaGripen » 04 Apr 2006 20:06

I have always heard it as hindu or buddhist......

it is disscused here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

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HaEn
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swastika

Post by HaEn » 05 Apr 2006 00:56

The swastika as a symbol, was used on both sides of the atlantic, for thousands of years, before uncle Adolph.
In its oldest form it was rounded, and depicted the "Sunwheel" (Sonnenrad).
Th arms pointing either left or right were to denote the sun rising in the east and (hold on to your pants) the sun rising in the WEST.
The earth reversed it's poles several times in ancient history, and rulers of the time, on both sides of the ocean had to start "new" calenders, and set "new" four corners of the world.
Its use for "good luck " is directly tied in to the "Sunwheel" because the sun was thought (and is) the source of all life.
Adolph H. picked up his version of it, from a monastery in Austria, soemtime around the 1919/1920's.
I'll try to find the book in my attic describing this.
The reversal of the 'sun" can be found in a VERY interesting book, well documented, and well researched, by Dr. Emanuel Velikovski, named "Worlds in colission".
Happy reading.
HN

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delfi
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Hackenkreuz origins

Post by delfi » 05 Apr 2006 01:45

The Sonnenwendfeier on 21 June, is a solstice festival which celebrates the shortest night - start of Summer- with song fires and the burning of a rolling wheel covered with a wreath of oak leaf branches. "Ewig dreht das Rad des Lebens
Ewig kreisen Zeit und Erde
Ewig neut sich so des Jahresund
des Menschen "Stirb und Werde."
The story was that this ancient Germanic tradition was the birth of the Swastika...the burning wheel, rolling down a hill would look like a swastika. The official song of this feltival was rather catchy...called 'Flames Rise'---
"Flamme empor!
Steige mit loderndem Scheine
Von den Gebirgen am Rheine
Glühend empor..."

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deathdealerdelta
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Post by deathdealerdelta » 05 Apr 2006 02:35

Thanks guys.

-Ray

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Walter Wulfsen
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Post by Walter Wulfsen » 05 Apr 2006 04:50

Here is quick description of the Nazi use of the Hakenkreuz (Swastika), taken from the site listed below.

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Image

"Previous sign Next sign All signs in Group 34

34:13 · This form of the swastika, the closed, diagonally positioned, square-formed variation, was the emblem of Nazism and Hitler's emblem. In 1920 the swastika was officially accepted as the main symbol on the party banner.
See the section "The ideographic struggle in Europe during the 1930's in the Appendices for more data.
The swastika had already appeared earlier in the twentieth century as an anti-Semitic and uniting symbol in Germany and Austria. For other variations of the swastika, its names, and historical background, turn to in Group 15. The swastika form is associated with the sun and power. The swastika moving in a clockwise direction is related to and also to its meaning, reincarnation, return, and so on. symbolizes, therefore, national reincarnation.
The American Nazi party uses the same sign but with a circle at its center: .
In China we find the form as a general superlative and as a sign for the magnificent number 10,000."

[Unfortunately, the Hakenkreuz and Sigrune (below), indeed all symbols, can not be easily, within text, copied-modern computer technology. 8O I could copy them and display them using Photobucket, or any online hosting service. However, we all know what they look like. I suggest exploring the fascinating source site below.]



http://history1900s.about.com/gi/dynami ... 2F151.html [Click on Group 34, highlighted in blue in the article-quite an interesting site.] :D

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Here is Der Fuhrer's own description of the Nazi flag, from Mein Kampf.

"In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic." (pg. 496-497)

Cheers,

Walter

P.S. Also found on the above listed site [Symbols.com Online Encyclopedia of Western Signs and Ideograms] is the following information on the Sigrune.

Image

"Symbol 16:16

Previous sign Next sign All signs in Group 16

16:16 · Similar in graphic structure to a mirror image of N in the Western alphabet, this sign is, in all probability, a basic gestalt in Western ideography. With the basic element of the straight line thrice repeated and connected, some ten graphs can be created, all of which are common in Western ideography. Many of them, like and this entry sign, are signs for danger. is associated with energy and power, which are dangerous.
This runic structure is seldom seen in the Nordic runic alphahets. Occasionally it is used instead of , the sun rune, and , the yew tree rune. In the runic tradition of Germany the sign is the Sigrune, i.e. the rune of victory (together with in Group 4). It is strongly associated with military power, violence, battle, death and war.
See, for instance, and in Group 34.
is also a sign for heat. In industrial engineering, for example, represents an electric melting oven.
is used in some military systems, as in for liaison and signal company.
In computer flowcharting indicates communication links.
In the Japanese Art of warfare, a treatise on military strategy from the end of the Middle Ages, the similar means way, path or street, depending upon the surrounding signs."

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deathdealerdelta
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Post by deathdealerdelta » 05 Apr 2006 12:21

Thanks again guys for all of the info.

-Ray

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Geoff Walden
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Hitler's First Hakenkreuz

Post by Geoff Walden » 05 Apr 2006 18:53

It has been theorized (it was even written about in the late 1930s) that Hitler recalled a Sonnenrad style Hakenkreuz that he first saw as a child, in the monastery at Lambach, Austria, where he was a choirboy (Hitler lived in Lambach from 1897-98). This symbol was the adopted crest of Abbot Theoderich Hagen - he reportedly adopted it after he returned from a visit to the Middle East in the 1850s. The symbol appears twice in the monastery - in an inner courtyard, above a fountain, and on a memorial to Hagen in the main sanctuary.

Geoff Walden
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deathdealerdelta
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Post by deathdealerdelta » 06 Apr 2006 01:39

Whoa, thanks for the info. I never thought I would see something resembling a swastika in a monastery

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Walter Wulfsen
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Post by Walter Wulfsen » 24 Apr 2006 23:39

On the folowing site is a nice chronology of the Hakenkreuz-swastika in Germany. :idea:

Source: http://rexcurry.net/bookchapter4a1a2.html

victorius
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Iceland and the Swastika

Post by victorius » 29 Apr 2006 01:21

Hi there fellow historians.
However, before the war it was not uncommon as a logo, also used by a few other shipping companies:
the Icelandic Steamship Company (Eimskipafélag Íslands) and the Scindia Line of India.
(In fact, those logos were still in use for several years after the war.)
I found an image of the building, but not quite clear the swastika on it. It is on the right side of the picture, kind of on the top of the building. A blue swastika.

Eimskip (means Steamship in English) was Icelands first shipping company founded in 1914. It's logo was the swastika. See here: http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime ... atlogo.htm (look down the page for Icelandic Steamship company)

It remained a powerful company until about 2002. It wasn't until 2003-2004 when the swastika on the building was finally replaced by the inscription 1914. I'll try to post some pictures before / after.

I noticed that the user "Walter Wulfsen" said:
"This runic structure is seldom seen in the Nordic runic alphahets. "

The Image sign is a standard "S"

I remember writing in runes when I was only 10 years old.

Here that our Icelandic University Science website writes:
Runes are the oldest form of written letters among germanic peoples. The word rune can mean secret, personal or vísidómur. There are two types of runes. The older has 24 letters and was used from 2. century after Christ to the 8th. Then a new rune system was used with 16 letters. The younger rune system has only been found in scandinavia and in britain.
See here the Icelandic (scandinavian) rune alphabet http://visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=3887
While most Western European languages have reduced greatly the extent of inflection, particularly in noun declension, Icelandic retains an inflectional grammar comparable to that of Latin, Ancient Greek, or more closely, Old English.

Written Icelandic has changed relatively little since the 13th century. As a result of this, and of the similarity between the modern and ancient grammar, modern speakers can still understand, more or less, the original sagas and Eddas that were written some eight hundred years ago.
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A few comments about Iceland (from wikipedia)
* The Althing is the oldest, still-standing, parliament in the world that has written documents to prove its age.
* The Icelandic language is the closest language to Old Norse, the language of the Vikings.
* The tallest structure in Western Europe is located in Iceland; it is the 412 metre high (1,352 ft) Longwave radio mast Hellissandur near Hellissandur.
* Iceland is among the ten richest countries in the world based on GDP per capita at purchasing power parity.
* Literacy, longevity, income, and social cohesion are first-rate by world standards.

victorius
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The Swastika

Post by victorius » 29 Apr 2006 01:38

I almost forgot:
Image
The Original Icelandic Steamship logo.

As you can see it has shorter parts and was originally thought as the hammer of Thor (of Norse mythology)

I really don't remeber if it was like that to ~2002. I always thought that it was exactly like the third reich swastika. I'll try to get pictures and let you see.

Mic
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Post by Mic » 29 Apr 2006 08:33

the above swastika was (and is) used by the Finnish armed forces

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