Persecution after the Reichstag Fire with Photos... I hope.

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Rick-rs
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#16

Post by Rick-rs » 21 Nov 2002, 11:03

Rinus v/d Lubbe had the mind of a twelve year old.that he was able to speak German isn't something special,the language is very near to Dutch, half of the Dutch population speak German.

And offcourse he was not alone,he had to be Superman to start fires at three different places at the same time,having the mind of a child he was very easy to impress,he was the right man on the wrong place,that's all.

His Sister once stated on dutch TV that he was not even able to understand ore explain communisim.

Cheers Rick

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Daniel L
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#17

Post by Daniel L » 21 Nov 2002, 14:26

That's exactly what I've been trying to say the whole time, the chance that van der Lubbe did it himself is next to nill.

regards


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chalutzim
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#18

Post by chalutzim » 21 Nov 2002, 14:54

Rick-rs wrote:Rinus v/d Lubbe had the mind of a twelve year old.that he was able to speak German isn't something special,the language is very near to Dutch, half of the Dutch population speak German.

And offcourse he was not alone,he had to be Superman to start fires at three different places at the same time,having the mind of a child he was very easy to impress,he was the right man on the wrong place,that's all.

His Sister once stated on dutch TV that he was not even able to understand ore explain communisim.

Cheers Rick
Rick, thanks for the information. When I said that he spoke german very well, I only gave the opinion of his lawyer. In fact, the lawyer said that the knowledge of Marinus was a bit sophisticated and that he was ironic even about what Dimitrov said. I read this information in:

Pritchard, R. John, Reichstag fire: ashes of democracy, New York 1972 This author accept Tobias' thesis and thinks that Marinus was alone in the matter.

Regards.

Rick-rs
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#19

Post by Rick-rs » 21 Nov 2002, 15:24

If you are not to observant being stupid can be mistaken for being excentric or cynical,his sister stated that he couldn't keep a job longer than a week,and that the trial was the one time in his life he was the centre of attention,not being able to see the concequences of his deed, he wanted to make it last.

Cheers Rick

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Walter Schellenberg
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#20

Post by Walter Schellenberg » 22 Nov 2002, 14:42

Heydrich was behind the Reichstag fire as he was behind the Gleiwitz incident or the Kristallnacht.

Nearly all the books i read on german espionnage as well as old SD members' testimonials unanimously confirm this.
Van Der Lubbe had been beaten and given drugs by the SD before his appearence.

He did not even put foot once in the Reichstag in his whole life

W-S

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Max
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Re: Nazis

#21

Post by Max » 23 Nov 2002, 04:31

To Bill Medland

chalutzim wrote:
Bill Medland wrote:Hi Chalutzim,
Your first post in this thread discribed the SA as "Nazi Ruffians",
they were in fact during these arrests acting as "Auxiliary Police",
under government orders.
Regards,Bill.
Bill, you're right. I forgot to write: Nazi ruffians acting as auxiliary policemen.
Thanks to mend me. Regards.
Bill
Is it possible that you are being romantically naive with regard to the SA ?
Just what do you think the purpose of the SA was?
You have claimed elsewhere that you have no political / ideological allegence to it, but that you like the idea of the uniform and songs.

Had you been able to join the SA, what would you have done when ordered to indulge in a bit of anti jewish/communist biffo?

Would you have warned you victims off with;
"I say now, Jewish/ communist chappies, be off with you before my less sensitive comrades put in a bit of the old jackboot [regretable though that would be.]???
Do be careful of the glass [???]

How long could you have kept yourself "nice" in the Zeitgeist of the 30s/40s??

Max

David Thompson
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#22

Post by David Thompson » 23 Nov 2002, 06:26

Some side notes on the Reichstag fire:

On January 10 1934, Marinus van der Lubbe, sentenced to death for starting the Reichstag fire in February of 1933, was beheaded by Nazi authorities. (Snyder Ency 14)

On May 2 1939, Walter Gempp, who had served as the chief of the Berlin fire brigade for twenty-seven years, was found strangled in his cell in a Nazi prison. At the Reichstag fire trial in 1933, Gempp had given evidence damaging to the Nazis regarding the fire, which Adolf Hitler used as an excuse for assuming dictatorial powers in Germany. Gempp and his fire fighters had found enough incendiary material in the Reichstag to fill a truck, and stated that Hermann Goering had forbidden the fire department from making full use of its fire fighting equipment and had delayed notifying the firemen of the blaze until it was too late. Gempp had been arrested and imprisoned by the Nazis in 1937. (Snyder Ency 111)

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chalutzim
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#23

Post by chalutzim » 23 Nov 2002, 06:59

David Thompson wrote:Some side notes on the Reichstag fire: ... notifying the firemen of the blaze until it was too late. Gempp had been arrested and imprisoned by the Nazis in 1937. (Snyder Ency 111)
David, who is the author of the article you quoted? Snyder gives the authorship of this article? Thanks.
Last edited by chalutzim on 23 Nov 2002, 07:25, edited 1 time in total.

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chalutzim
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#24

Post by chalutzim » 23 Nov 2002, 07:04

Walter Schellenberg wrote:Heydrich was behind the Reichstag fire as
he was behind the Gleiwitz incident or the Kristallnacht ...
Walter, would you give me the sources of your assertions? Thank you very much. Wintceas.

David Thompson
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#25

Post by David Thompson » 23 Nov 2002, 08:06

Chalutzim -- The writing is mine. The information was taken from Snyder, Louis L., Encyclopedia of the Third Reich, Paragon House, New York: 1989, at the cited pages.

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Walter Schellenberg
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#26

Post by Walter Schellenberg » 23 Nov 2002, 13:21

Chalutzim,

you can find this information in several books, related to Third Reich intelligence:

- Histoire des services secrets nazis (Andre BRISSAUD)
- The Labirynth (Walter Schellenberg's memoirs)
- The Man who started WWII (Alfred Naujocks memoirs)
- Heydrich, Hitler's most evil Henchman (Charles Wighting).

The Reichstag fire was 100% Nazi homemade, and Heydrich at the time head of a quite embryonnic SD was behind it -
it is interesting to notice that Heydrich always had very radical (but efficient) ideas that other people wouldn't dare have.
To such an extent, that when Heydirch was confronted with a problem to solve (usually issued by Himmler or Hitler), he came to the Reichsfuhrer SS 24-48 hours later with some radical ideas that the Reichsfuhrer SS himself didn't dare suggest to Hitler.

Himmler, a renowned coward, many times asked Heydrich himself to suggest his idea to Hitler, as he was very afraid of the consequences - But Heydirch's ideas were always welcomed by the fuhrer, who was (and this is undoubtly the secret toHeydirch's rise to power) one of the greatest Heydrich supporters.

It was Heydrich that had proposed the Reichstag incident to the fuhrer
It was Heydrich that insisted that Rohm should bemurdered (while the fuhrer still was not decided about the fate of his "old comrade)
It was Heydrich who suggested that the SD murder Von Papen (i don't rememberfor what purpose though, should go back in my books)
It was Heydrich that proposed that supposedly "staged" fake attempt on Hitler's life in Munich 1938, in order to strenghten the German public opinion around their fuhrer, who were in that time skeptical about their country entering war
etc.....

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Scott Smith
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Re: Nazis

#27

Post by Scott Smith » 23 Nov 2002, 21:20

Max wrote:To Bill Medland
chalutzim wrote:
Bill Medland wrote:Hi Chalutzim,
Your first post in this thread discribed the SA as "Nazi Ruffians",
they were in fact during these arrests acting as "Auxiliary Police",
under government orders.
Regards,Bill.
Bill, you're right. I forgot to write: Nazi ruffians acting as auxiliary policemen.
Thanks to mend me. Regards.
Bill
Is it possible that you are being romantically naive with regard to the SA ?
Just what do you think the purpose of the SA was?
It was the private army of the Nazi Party and they needed it to survive on the street. But perhaps it would have been better to deputize the Red Front to round-up the Communists.
:wink:

Image

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chalutzim
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Red Front

#28

Post by chalutzim » 23 Nov 2002, 23:34

Scott, you're right, it would be a better option in the occasion. The communists were better fighters and more motivated than the nazi pigheads. Unfortunately, Hitler and his bunch of criminals did not had this great idea. But maybe the way they solved the Communist Question proved to be better than yours, I think.

I'm wondering where you find such amazing solutions! You're impressing me every time you make your thoughts public. And I, fooling myself, using to think that Roberto was brilliant... :(

Congratulations from Rio de Janeiro. Wintceas.

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Scott Smith
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#29

Post by Scott Smith » 24 Nov 2002, 01:21

I would not have banned the opposition party, and besides they might have proved useful.
:D

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chalutzim
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Re: Scott

#30

Post by chalutzim » 24 Nov 2002, 02:07

Scott Smith wrote:I would not have banned the opposition party, and besides they might have proved useful.
:D
Scott, you're talking a posteriori. I doubt if you would not act like they, the "thousand years" reich promoters, actually did.

Regards. Wintceas.
Last edited by chalutzim on 25 Nov 2002, 01:26, edited 3 times in total.

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