Reichsleiter Dr. Robert Ley

[Adam Carr]

There are several points to make here.
* The use of the death penalty at Nuremberg wasn't just a matter of punishment. It also had a preventive role. No-one knew in 1945-46 whether Nazism was really dead in Germany or not. Allowing senior members of the Nazi leadership to stay alive, even in prison, seemed to the Allies, and certainly to the Soviets, as an unacceptable risk.
* There was also an element of collective punishment involved. The Nazi regime bore collective responsibility for millions of deaths. The top leaders (except Göring) were dead, but it seemed to many to be disgusting that any of the senior Nazis should escape with their lives. The death penalty was relatively unproblematic for someone like Kaltenbrunner, who was a direct agent of murder, but more difficult for people like Streicher, Rosenberg and Ley, who were not. In the circumstances, incitement to mass murder - where that incitement had actually led to mass murder - seemed to most contemporaries to merit the death penalty.
* The US and other stable democracies can allow fringe elements to use their constitutionally guaranteed rights of free speech to engage in race hatred without any serious risk. That was not the circumstance in Germany in 1945.
* Speer was indeed every bit as guilty as Sauckel, but the full knowledge of his guilt (particularly about the use of slave labour at Nordhausen) was not known to the IMT and Speer didn't of course volunteer it, despite his phony pose of remorse. That was part of the price paid for having the trial so soon, before all the documents could be assembled.

[Kunstler]

And Jodl?

[Adam Carr]

I agree that Jodl was the weakest case for the death penalty. Weaker than Keitel, who was much more clearly a Nazi before he was a general. The facts that hanged Jodl were his signatures on the Commando Order (a pretty clear breach of the laws of war), and the Commissar Order (which provided the legal pretext for the actions of the Einsatzgruppen).

[Max Williams]

Ley at Ordensburg Crössinsee.
Max.

[Michael Miller]

Hold up, Max. What's the idea of posting things to this topic that are--- on the topic ?!




~ Mike

[Max Williams]

Hold up, Max. What's the idea of posting things to this topic that are--- on the topic ?!




~ Mike

[Adam Carr]

Would Robert Ley enthusiasts be interested in seeing some of my Prora photos?

Below: Architect Clemens Klotz shows a scale model of the Prora development to Hitler and Ley (from the Prora museum)

[J. Duncan]

I was thumbing through one of the journalistic books from the thirties, William D. Bayles "Caesars in Goosetep" and re-read the chapter on Robert Ley. The author claims to have interviewed Dr. Ley on one of his DAF cruise ships...the scene he describes is one of the more classic (yet humorous) accounts of Robert Ley as a drunken sot...Bayles walks into Ley's cabin to find 3 men - all drunk...a coffee table covered with wine and beer glasses, empty bottles, cigar ashes, bread crusts and leftover sausages. Ley's uniform is splattered with food stains, his hand bloodied from a broken glass...he wipes his forehead, smearing blood into his hair...Ley says "Forgive the mess, but I found myself alone last night with a bottle of cognac, and well, you know how it is". Ley's two adjudants can barely stand, still drunk from the night before...with the wave of a bloody hand, Ley clears off the table, the mess being pushed onto the floor..."Ok Mr. Americano, how can I help you?" I was paraphrasing the quotes but you get the idea...I can't say how true accounts such as these are, but Ley's drinking was legendary, even amongst Germans...The History Channel had a documentary titled "Hitler's Youth"...in one of the episodes, a former member of the HJ remembered Dr. Ley visiting his Fuhrer School...one of the kids asked Ley if it was true that he was a drunk...Ley signed, lowered his head a litle bit, and then said "Boys, you can be whatever you want, just don't become drinkers".

[Igor Karpov]

Artur Greiser and Dr. Robert Ley.

Regards,
Igor

[Pitino]

I was thumbing through one of the journalistic books from the thirties, William D. Bayles "Caesars in Goosetep" and re-read the chapter on Robert Ley. The author claims to have interviewed Dr. Ley on one of his DAF cruise ships...the scene he describes is one of the more classic (yet humorous) accounts of Robert Ley as a drunken sot...Bayles walks into Ley's cabin to find 3 men - all drunk...a coffee table covered with wine and beer glasses, empty bottles, cigar ashes, bread crusts and leftover sausages. Ley's uniform is splattered with food stains, his hand bloodied from a broken glass...he wipes his forehead, smearing blood into his hair...Ley says "Forgive the mess, but I found myself alone last night with a bottle of cognac, and well, you know how it is". Ley's two adjudants can barely stand, still drunk from the night before...with the wave of a bloody hand, Ley clears off the table, the mess being pushed onto the floor..."Ok Mr. Americano, how can I help you?" I was paraphrasing the quotes but you get the idea...I can't say how true accounts such as these are, but Ley's drinking was legendary, even amongst Germans...The History Channel had a documentary titled "Hitler's Youth"...in one of the episodes, a former member of the HJ remembered Dr. Ley visiting his Fuhrer School...one of the kids asked Ley if it was true that he was a drunk...Ley signed, lowered his head a litle bit, and then said "Boys, you can be whatever you want, just don't become drinkers".

J. Duncan,
I have seen that particular "Hitler Youth" episode that you are talking about. I am not positive, but I think it was called "Hitler's Children". I believe the part that you are talking about is when Ley visits one of the "Adolf Hitler Schools" that he and Schirach ran. The two opened their first "Adolf Hitler School" on Hitler's birthday (April 20) 1937. The schools were to be run by the Hitler Youth and supervised by the Gauleiter of whatever Gau the school was located in.

Pitino

[J. Duncan]

Pitino - Yes..you saw the same series...I think the History Channel changed the name from "Hitler's Youth" to Hitler's Children" but it's the same series...yes, it was an Adolf Hitler School, I think the visit took place at "Sontofen" (?), the school which still exists today and has that giant clock tower....There are many pictures of Ley visiting these schools, as well as Himmler's Burg Wewelsberg. Ley had a very busy schedule, traveling all over Germany, and appeared to be at all places, all the time. There used to be a really neat video on YouTube of a TV interview that Ley gave some reporter...the same clip was shown in the the above documentary...Ley speaks with a slight stammer and lisp.

[J. Duncan]

Here is the clip of that Robert Ley interview followed by the account of the Ley drinking quote (from "Hitler's Children")
Forward the video to 2:00 for the segment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocYW_5Wf ... re=related

[Pitino]

J.Duncan,
Thanks for the you-tube bit!!! I viewed it and it is exactly the same episode that I was talking about. Much appreciation!!!

Pitino

[Andrey]

Great photo of Ley and Frank!

Ostmann.

[Michael Miller]

Wonderful photo! NAC is a real goldmine. Very interesting to see the white cap with brown Reichsleiter tunic. And I wonder what the oval-shaped badge signifies (presumably some sort of tinnie, but a particularly fancy one).

~ Mike