let' guess

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mw747
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let' guess

#1

Post by mw747 » 14 Dec 2002, 23:11

acording to many historians,ther's a spy in the direct environement of the axis commendement.the soviets knew everything 'bout citadelle,exept the last minute changes made by hitler himself,so they all said ,bormann was the spy,what you're all thinking 'bout? :)

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Brannik
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#2

Post by Brannik » 16 Dec 2002, 18:23

Either him or Canaris I guess...I am sure the answer can be found in Moscow.
Good luck getting it though :?

Regards


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Nagelfar
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#3

Post by Nagelfar » 16 Dec 2002, 18:29

hmmm.. bormann a spy? communist?

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witness
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#4

Post by witness » 16 Dec 2002, 18:31

No doubt Canaris could have been the guy ( although AFAIK he worked with the western intellegence ).
But Borman ??? 8O
Where did you get it from ?

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Maple 01
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#5

Post by Maple 01 » 16 Dec 2002, 18:38

Wasn't Uncle Joe tipped off via Enigma decripts?

Regards

-Nick

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Nagelfar
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#6

Post by Nagelfar » 16 Dec 2002, 18:44

if such a thing were true, it would bring back the entire "stabed in the back" theory and a whole mess in that regard.. it might explain why Bormann wasnt found until 'very recently' and finally "confirmed" being him, for diplomatic reasons. for the sake of argument, if someone like that were a spy, they would simply be directed back through soviet forces, under the auspices of the russian military, to moscow. and disappear completely without a trace

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Marcus
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#7

Post by Marcus » 16 Dec 2002, 19:02

witness wrote:But Borman ??? 8O
Where did you get it from ?
Prehaps from this book:
Image

"Hitler's Traitor: Martin Bormann and the defeat of the Reich" by Louis Kilzer.

/Marcus

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witness
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#8

Post by witness » 16 Dec 2002, 19:09

Thank you Marcus.
This is quite a suprise to me considering Hitler'r tremendous respect for Borman.
He was indeed very shadowy figure in the Nazi elite.
Who knows...
I'll try to read the book.

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Nagelfar
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#9

Post by Nagelfar » 16 Dec 2002, 22:23

"Hitler's Traitor: Martin Bormann and the defeat of the Reich" by Louis Kilzer
Marcus, have you (or anyone else for that matter) read this book? and if so, does it put forth a plausible case? or just grasp at alot of straws?

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Marcus
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#10

Post by Marcus » 16 Dec 2002, 22:25

Nagelfar wrote:
"Hitler's Traitor: Martin Bormann and the defeat of the Reich" by Louis Kilzer
Marcus, have you (or anyone else for that matter) read this book? and if so, does it put forth a plausible case? or just grasp at alot of straws?
No, I have not read it, sorry.

/Marcus

Mark Costa
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#11

Post by Mark Costa » 17 Dec 2002, 00:16

Please don't waste your time nor money on this book. It is crap. The author never presents any hard documented evidence to show Bormann was a spy. It is all speculation and I mean real speculation on his part. It is so preposterous, it is laughable. Bormann certainly was not the spy if there ever was one at all. The allies knew more about what was happening at Hitler's HQ -- not because of any spy, but because they had broken the enigma machine codes. If there ever was a spy it certainly wasn't Bormann -- more like Fegelein.

Mark

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Nagelfar
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#12

Post by Nagelfar » 17 Dec 2002, 01:09

thanks for the imput. I know there are alot of books out there with far out theories and no real point to them at all, so thats why I was asking

Durand
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#13

Post by Durand » 17 Dec 2002, 16:58

The Soviets benefited greatly from Rudolf Roessler aka "Lucy". Roessler, a German soldier during WW I and later a journalist and publisher, moved to Switzerland during the early 1930s because of his anti-Hitler view. In the course of his publishing business, he often traveled between Germany and Switzerland. He had many acquaintances within the German officers corps and he later used them as contacts to collect intelligence information for the Allies, primarily the Soviets. Roessler's contacts included Hans Oster, Canaris' deputy; Lt. General Fritz Theile, a senior officer in the Wehrmacht's communication service; and Colonel von Gersdorff, an intelligence officer assigned to Army Group Center. The exact number and identities of all of the informants contributing to Roessler is still unknown. The Lucy ring provided detailed information regarding the German invasion of the West, the planning for Barbarossa , and Zitadel. I seem to recall that "Lucy" has been credited as a major factor in the Soviet victory at Kursk. There is an interesting book, now out of print, called "A Man Called Lucy." It is a short book that is worth reading.

For mw747: There have been several threads on this forum regarding Bormann's alleged spy activity, you may want to check those too.

Regards,

Durand

Martin Månsson
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#14

Post by Martin Månsson » 17 Dec 2002, 20:24

There are unfortunately many such books, this one, the book that says Hitler was a homosexual, the book that claims it wasn't Himmler who died on Lüneberger Heide in 1945, the Müller books etc etc. Conspiracy books are always produced but very often lacks of solid proofs or sourcematerial. Just the authors speculations and seldom worth to buy. It's however my personal opinion.

Best
Martin

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David E M
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#15

Post by David E M » 18 Dec 2002, 02:37

Mark and Durand, You have touched on an interesting subject here, everyone says there was a spy high up in the 'Establishment" can't remember the German word 'Prominenten'? when Fegelien was arrested there was an Irish woman in the apartment with him she escaped through the back window she was never found , and since the war has never written her memoirs or anything, maybe she was the famous spy in the network?.
cheers

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