Hitler was never an Austrian!!

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Bill Medland
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Hitler was never an Austrian!!

#1

Post by Bill Medland » 18 Dec 2002, 19:26

Hi Forum,
I read about a new book today in the German Bild Zeitung, which states that Hitler was not Austrian!
The story was told by a priest who saw Adolf Hitler hours after he was born.
Hitlers father worked for the Austrian Customs at the German- Austrian border. He worked on the German side of the border and his wife was with him when she suddenly gave birth to her son Adolf.
A baby born in Germany to Austrian parents would have caused Alois Hitler problems, so he packed his wife with the new baby over the border quickly. Alois then reported the birth of Adolf hours later, but on the Austrian side of the border.
These new facts make young Adolf in fact Bavarian!!
The Austrians at Braunau-am-Inn are happy with this news reported the newspaper.

I am very interested about the views of the Forum

Regards,Bill.
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White Leopard
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Hair-splitting

#2

Post by White Leopard » 18 Dec 2002, 19:39

It makes no difference which side of the river Adolph popped out on. He was raised in Austria, as an Austrian. Simply a matter of splitting hairs. If the location was covered up by his parents, he was as good as born on the Austrian side.

However, it is amusing to think that now he will be passed back and forth between the two countries like a hot potato that isn't wanted by either, though :lol: .


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Birgitte Heuschkel
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#3

Post by Birgitte Heuschkel » 18 Dec 2002, 19:41

"Your kid!"
"No, YOUR kid!"
"Hell no!"
"Hell yes!"

... Let the border riots begin. :lol:

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sylvieK4
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#4

Post by sylvieK4 » 18 Dec 2002, 19:46

That would depend on the citizenship laws of the day. From what I understand, the parents of a person born in Germany had to be, themselves, German citizens in order for the child to be considered German. For example, someone born to American parents in Germany was not considered a German citizen at that time, under the laws of the day. The child would be an American citizen, child of American parents, born in Germany, but not entitled to German citizenship.

Similarly, if Adolf Hitler were in fact born inside Germany, rather than Austria, I believe don't believe he, or anyone now, can legitimately claim he was "German", as apparently German law of the day would not automatically accept him as a German/ Bavarian simply because he entered the world there. The deciding factors would have been the nationality and residency of the parents. Since Hitler's parents were Austrians, I believe both Germany and Austria would have acknowledged him as such, too.

Back then, German law was not as flexible about who was eligible to claim German citizenship as it may be now.

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Lawrence
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Birthplaces

#5

Post by Lawrence » 18 Dec 2002, 20:10

If memory serves, I believe Hess was born in Egypt. But somehow, I don't think he's Egyptian. Regards!

JLEES
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Minor Issue

#6

Post by JLEES » 18 Dec 2002, 22:04

This is kind of an immaterial issue, because the whole thing is about German blood (from a Nazi prospective), isn’t it? And although there are some in Austria whom might like the idea Hitler was German (which he was in a sense), Hitler thought he was born an Austrian.
James

Phaethon
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Re: Birthplaces

#7

Post by Phaethon » 18 Dec 2002, 23:30

Kingsley wrote:If memory serves, I believe Hess was born in Egypt. But somehow, I don't think he's Egyptian. Regards!
No, but maybe his MUMMY was :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(couldn't resist, wouldn't resist)

K.

coldam
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Adolf and L v B

#8

Post by coldam » 19 Dec 2002, 02:54

I heard on Radio Austria InternationaL that
Braunau
does not even have a sign on the old Hitler family house,

- for fear of creating a shrine for neo nazis.


Beethoven, though born in Germany(Bonn)
lived most of his life in Austria(Vienna)

There was a saying that
Austrians
like to think of Hitler
as a German ,

and of Beethoven
as an Austrian

...peter

walterkaschner
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#9

Post by walterkaschner » 19 Dec 2002, 04:22

Sylvie K wrote:
That would depend on the citizenship laws of the day. From what I understand, the parents of a person born in Germany had to be, themselves, German citizens in order for the child to be considered German. For example, someone born to American parents in Germany was not considered a German citizen at that time, under the laws of the day. The child would be an American citizen, child of American parents, born in Germany, but not entitled to German citizenship.

Similarly, if Adolf Hitler were in fact born inside Germany, rather than Austria, I believe don't believe he, or anyone now, can legitimately claim he was "German", as apparently German law of the day would not automatically accept him as a German/ Bavarian simply because he entered the world there. The deciding factors would have been the nationality and residency of the parents. Since Hitler's parents were Austrians, I believe both Germany and Austria would have acknowledged him as such, too.

Back then, German law was not as flexible about who was eligible to claim German citizenship as it may be now.


I believe Sylvie K. is quite correct. I am by no means knowlegeable about the specific citizenship laws prevailing in the German Empire, in Bavaria or in Austria in 1889, the year of Hitler's birth. But on the basis of general reading, and some more specific knowledge of the citizenship laws of Germany and Austria during the past century, I have a very strong suspicion that Hitler would have been deemed an Austrian citizen by both countries regardless of which side of the border he was born on. My understanding has always been that not until quite recently, and then only in a very limited fashion, has either Austria or Germany determined citizenship by ius soli (place of birth) rather than by ius sanguinis (parentage). And in Germany, and I believe but am not as certain, in Austria as well, the parentage depended on the nationality of the father, rather than the mother, except in certain special cases such as illegitimacy.

The United States, on the other hand, determines citizenship by birth both on the basis of ius soli and of ius sanguinis. With very minor exceptions, a child born within the boundaries of the US or its territories is legally a US citizen, regardless of its parentage, and a child born of US parents is legally a US citizen regardless of place of birth.

And so a child born in the US of a German father was endowed with dual nationality, which neither the US nor Germany recognized in terms of nationality of the other state, and which - particularly for a male child - created peculiar problems. This led to several legal proceedings in the US involving 2nd generation German-Americans who, when they visited Germany to familiarize themseves with the land of their parents, were considered German citizens and as such conscripted into the German (or Bavarian or Saxon, etc.) Army and forced to swear allegiance to the foreign German state. The legal issue in the US was: had they renounced, and thereby technically lost their US citizenship by so doing? After some to-ing and fro-ing, the US courts ultimately decided that they had not, as their oath of allegiance to the German State was compulsory and not voluntarily and freely given, and therefore they retained their US citizenship. IMHO a correct and just decision.

But to get back on topic, Hitler certainly considered himself to be an Austrian citizen. In Mein Kampf he tells how he petitioned King Ludwig II of Bavaria to serve as an Austrian in the Bavarian Army. Bavaria considered him an Austrian; at the aftermath of his trial for the failed Beer Hall Putsch Bavaria sought to deport him to Austria. The Austrians apparently believed that he had been an Austrian citizen at least until he had served in the Bavarian Army, and refused to accept his deportation on the grounds that by so serving he had renounced his Austrian citizenship. To clear up the matter Hitler applied in 1925 to formally renounce his Austrian citizenship, which Austria promplty granted. For the next seven years Hitler remained stateless.

It was not until 1932, in connection with his announced candidacy for President, that Hitler officially obtained German citizenship. He was quickly appointed Government Councillor (Regierungsrat) in the Braunschweig Office of State Culture and Measurement ( Landeskultur und Vermessungsamt), which endowed him with German citizenship as a German civil servant.

And so, in the final analysis, not only does it seem to me that there is no predicate for the author's conclusion, but that it would make no difference if there were. So what? Another author trying to pick up a few extra Euros by a supposedly sensational exposé!

Regards, Kaschner

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Bill Medland
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#10

Post by Bill Medland » 19 Dec 2002, 11:00

I think this "news" if proven, would not alter the history books much except for perhaps a foot note.

The only change I can see is that the House at Braunau will not be seen as Adolf's birth place, but only as the house where he grew up.

The Austrians will "disown" him as one of their sons.

I do not think Alois and Klara Hitler would have had any problems, Adolf would have been seen as Austrian because the parents were Austrian, so why did Alois do it?
I think he was a patriotic Austrian who could not bare to think of his son born in Germany, and wanted his son to be a "solid" Austrian, for Alois it was personal pride.
Regards,Bill.

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Nagelfar
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#11

Post by Nagelfar » 19 Dec 2002, 16:28

this is an important fact, because it has been brought up elsewhere that "Hitler became chancellor without even being a citizen". this would explain that, in regard that he never wasn't a citizen.

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Mike K.
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#12

Post by Mike K. » 19 Dec 2002, 16:48

Hitler was granted German citizenship in 1932 anyway, so it's not that important. A footnote, as Bill said.

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Angelo
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#13

Post by Angelo » 19 Dec 2002, 17:10

I think too that the money quest is probably the major concern of
the author while, except for merely biographical reasons, either solution
wouldn't change anything to the known picture.

But it's true too that even such a little stone must find its proper place
in the building that bears his name and any definite clarification will
still be welcome.

Angelo

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Geoff Walden
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Hitler House in Braunau

#14

Post by Geoff Walden » 19 Dec 2002, 20:05

coldam wrote:
I heard on Radio Austria InternationaL that
Braunau
does not even have a sign on the old Hitler family house,
- for fear of creating a shrine for neo nazis.


While there is no sign, per se, on the house in Braunau, there is a memorial stone on the sidewalk out front. The location of the house is certainly no secret, and you can see visitors taking pictures there most any day. See - http://www.thirdreichruins.com/austria.htm

Geoff Walden

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VJK
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#15

Post by VJK » 19 Dec 2002, 21:40

I believe it was the Duke of Wellington who said that "just because you are born in a stable doesn't mean that you are a horse!"

VJK

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