Highest NSDAP Rank Holders: Dienstleiter-Hauptbefehlsleiter

Discussions on all aspects of the NSDAP, the other party organizations and the government. Hosted by Michael Miller & Igor Karpov.
Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Highest NSDAP Rank Holders: Dienstleiter-Hauptbefehlsleiter

Post by Pitino » 15 Sep 2009 04:37

-Can someone tell me if I am leaving anyone out in any of the 3 ranks? Also, can someone feel in the appointment dates that are missing.

-(Pre-1939)-Reich Hauptdienstleiter was 2nd highest NSDAP rank after the rank of Reichsleiter.
-Reich Hauptdienstleiter-(Until mid 1939)
-Dr. Gerhard Wagner
-Hans Saupert
-Fritz Reinhardt-(Appointed Summer of 1934)
-Rudolf Schmeer-(Appointed 1935)
-Dr. Leonardo Conti-(Appointed 1939)

-(Mid-1939)-Rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter was abolished and the new ranks of Hauptbefehlsleiter and Oberbefehlsleiter took it's place. Hauptdienstleiter was retained in the restructuring, but at a much lower rank.
-Hauptbefehlsleiter- (After mid-1939)
-Hans Saupert- (Appointment April 20,1940)
-Friedrich Schmidt
-Fritz Reinhardt
-Claus Selzner- (Appointment 1941)


-Oberbefehlsleiter- (After mid-1939)
-Helmuth Friedrichs- (Appointed 1943)
-Rudolf Schmeer
-Dr. Leonardo Conti
-Erich Hilgenfeldt
-Ernst Leyser- (Appointed 1943)
-Otto Marrenbach
-Albert Speer
-Fritz Todt
-Karl Scharizer
-Dr. Paul Ruoff
-Dr. Anton Lingg
-Hugo Fischer
-Heinrich Simon
-Fritz Mehnert
-Gotthard Urban

Pitino
Last edited by Pitino on 19 Sep 2009 18:10, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
VJK
Member
Posts: 4545
Joined: 07 Apr 2002 15:50
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by VJK » 15 Sep 2009 09:10

Hi Pitino!

This topic will give you some additions: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5&t=156652

Best regards,

VJK

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 19 Sep 2009 06:27

-I need some help!!! I have seen where Fritz Reinhardt was appointed Reich Hauptdienstleiter during the summer of 1934, but I did not think that the rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter was introduced until 1935. If someone could clear this up for me I would be much appreciated!!!!

Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2351
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 19 Sep 2009 17:09

The rank does date from late 1933. The 1935 date seems to appear in various records, as most of the high ranking Reichsleitung officials were "re-confirmed" into their ranks during that year. Why this appears as such, is a mystery to me. You will find in the SS personnel records of some of the Reichsleiters, like Grimm, the same type of info, that appears to indicate that they received their promotions to Reichsleiter in 1935, when we all know he received it in 1933. This RE-CONFIRMATION is very strange indeed.

MArk

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 19 Sep 2009 18:13

Mark Costa wrote:The rank does date from late 1933. The 1935 date seems to appear in various records, as most of the high ranking Reichsleitung officials were "re-confirmed" into their ranks during that year. Why this appears as such, is a mystery to me. You will find in the SS personnel records of some of the Reichsleiters, like Grimm, the same type of info, that appears to indicate that they received their promotions to Reichsleiter in 1935, when we all know he received it in 1933. This RE-CONFIRMATION is very strange indeed.

MArk
Mark,
- Thanks for the clearification!!!! Your right the reconfirmation seems odd to me as well.

Pitino

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 02 Oct 2009 19:36

-I believe that Dr. Gerherd Wagner was appointed to the rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter in 1936 (the date was missing from my above list). Can anyone confirm this for me? Also, on the Axis Bio. Research website it has Anton Wintersteiger being appointed Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP in March 1938. Can anyone confirm this, because I was under the impression that my above list of pre-1939 Hauptdienstleiter's was complete?

Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2351
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 02 Oct 2009 19:52

Pitino:

I do not have a date for Wagner but I can tell you for sure that it was around 1936 as I have photos of him wearing the uniform and insignia of one as early as 1936. But in 1935 he wears the insignia of a Hauptamtleiter.


Wingtersteiger was DEFINATELY NOT a Reich Hauptdienstleiter in 1938. I have photos of him wearing Deputy Gauleiter Collar tabs during the 1938-39 period. BUT he was a Hauptdienstleiter in the re-organized PL system of 1939-45. Probably just a mistake on dates for him.

Mark Costa

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 02 Oct 2009 21:43

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

I do not have a date for Wagner but I can tell you for sure that it was around 1936 as I have photos of him wearing the uniform and insignia of one as early as 1936. But in 1935 he wears the insignia of a Hauptamtleiter.


Wingtersteiger was DEFINATELY NOT a Reich Hauptdienstleiter in 1938. I have photos of him wearing Deputy Gauleiter Collar tabs during the 1938-39 period. BUT he was a Hauptdienstleiter in the re-organized PL system of 1939-45. Probably just a mistake on dates for him.

Mark Costa
Mark,
-Thanks for the info!!! I am pretty sure of the Wagner date and I did not think the Wintersteiger info was correct. Thanks for the confirmation!!! Also, Mark is the rank of Befehlsleiter the same as Oberbefehlsleiter? I ask this because I have seen Leonardo Conti and Karl Scharizer listed with the rank of Befehlsleiter and I thought that they had both achieved the rank of Oberbefehlsleiter in their NSDAP careers.

Thanks again,
Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2351
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 03 Oct 2009 00:36

Pitino:

The three highest ranks in the PL system, other than Reichsleiter and Gauleiter, were Hauptbefehlsleiter, Oberbefehlsleiter and Befehlsleiter.

Conti went directly from the 1933-39 rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter to Oberbefehlsleiter in 1939 when the uniform/inisgnia change took place.

Scharizer I have only seen with Befehlsleiter collar tabs and a deputy gauleiter armband. Are sure of his promotion to Oberbefehlsleiter?

Mark Costa

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 03 Oct 2009 02:34

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

The three highest ranks in the PL system, other than Reichsleiter and Gauleiter, were Hauptbefehlsleiter, Oberbefehlsleiter and Befehlsleiter.

Conti went directly from the 1933-39 rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter to Oberbefehlsleiter in 1939 when the uniform/inisgnia change took place.

Scharizer I have only seen with Befehlsleiter collar tabs and a deputy gauleiter armband. Are sure of his promotion to Oberbefehlsleiter?

Mark Costa
Mark,
-I can not find any definitive evidence that Scharizer was ever promoted to Oberbefehlsleiter. I do have him being promoted to Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP on either April 20th or April 24th,1940. Also,I do have him being promoted to Befehlsleiter as you stated, but I have no date. One thing that does puzzle me is Conti jumping straight to Oberbefehlsleiter. I thought the same thing, but after viewing the above topic (viewtopic.php?f=45&t=156652) by VJK I just don't know. That official Reich listing from September 26,1940 has Conti listed as a Befehlsleiter. So it is either a misprint or Conti did not jump straight to Oberbefehlsleiter like I thought. What do you think?

Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2351
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 03 Oct 2009 04:27

Pitino:

I have seen no records of Conti ever holding the rank of Befehlsleiter. So you have something there I have never seen. And to be honest, him holding that rank does not make much sense to me. His previous rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter was, as you know an extremely rare and a very high rank -- one that out ranked gauleiter at the time.
So when the new rank structure was introduced in mid-1939 his being given an equivalent rank of either Haupt or OberBefehlsleiter is much more in line with the previous rank -- Reinhardt, Schmeer and Saupert all received either the Haupt or Oberbefehlsleiter ranks.

BUT one must also remember that Conti did not have as much seniority or a pay grade as high as the other three so it is possible for a very short time period he did hold the rank of only Befehlsleiter. The 1939-45 rank structure was based on pay grades and seniority and not positions as the pre-war structure. No other references make mention of that rank for Conti -- other than what you seem to have in your possesion. But I would certainly not rule out that he was initially given the rank of Befehlsleiter for short time period before his eventually and very much recorded rank of Oberbefehlsleiter.

Mark Costa

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 03 Oct 2009 04:47

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

I have seen no records of Conti ever holding the rank of Befehlsleiter. So you have something there I have never seen. And to be honest, him holding that rank does not make much sense to me. His previous rank of Reich Hauptdienstleiter was, as you know an extremely rare and a very high rank -- one that out ranked gauleiter at the time.
So when the new rank structure was introduced in mid-1939 his being given an equivalent rank of either Haupt or OberBefehlsleiter is much more in line with the previous rank -- Reinhardt, Schmeer and Saupert all received either the Haupt or Oberbefehlsleiter ranks.

BUT one must also remember that Conti did not have as much seniority or a pay grade as high as the other three so it is possible for a very short time period he did hold the rank of only Befehlsleiter. The 1939-45 rank structure was based on pay grades and seniority and not positions as the pre-war structure. No other references make mention of that rank for Conti -- other than what you seem to have in your possesion. But I would certainly not rule out that he was initially given the rank of Befehlsleiter for short time period before his eventually and very much recorded rank of Oberbefehlsleiter.

Mark Costa
Mark,
- Just scroll up the page to the short statement by VJK on Sept. 15,2009 and click on: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=156652
Then you will see Dr. Leonardo Conti-Leiter eines Oberamtes-Befehlsleiter. Then on the bottom of the second page it states Munchen, 29.9.1940. I had to see it to believe it as well!!!

Pitino
Last edited by Pitino on 03 Oct 2009 15:25, edited 1 time in total.

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 04 Oct 2009 18:43

-Can someone verify for me that Herbert Backe held the rank of Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP? Also, I have his promotion date as May 23,1942, but I am not certain of this. If anyone could substantiate these two questions for me I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Pitino

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 04 Oct 2009 20:07

Mark,
- I have found another listing of Conti with the rank of Befehlsleiter. In October 1941, the Partei Kanzlei lists this: Der Sachbearbeiter fur alle fragen der Volksgesundheit- Befehlsleiter Dr. Conti. It is looking more convincing that Conti may have held the rank of Befehlsleiter for a period.

Pitino

Phil Nix
In memoriam
Posts: 9498
Joined: 15 Oct 2002 10:52
Location: Birmingham England

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Phil Nix » 05 Oct 2009 10:36

Pitino wrote:-Can someone verify for me that Herbert Backe held the rank of Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP? Also, I have his promotion date as May 23,1942, but I am not certain of this. If anyone could substantiate these two questions for me I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Pitino
i can confirm that
Phil Nix

Return to “NSDAP, other party organizations & Government”