Highest NSDAP Rank Holders: Dienstleiter-Hauptbefehlsleiter

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Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 05 Oct 2009 15:16

Phil Nix wrote:
Pitino wrote:-Can someone verify for me that Herbert Backe held the rank of Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP? Also, I have his promotion date as May 23,1942, but I am not certain of this. If anyone could substantiate these two questions for me I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Pitino
i can confirm that
Phil Nix
Phil,
-Thanks for you confirmation!!! I guess he was promoted Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP the day that he took over for Darre. I wonder why Backe was never promoted to Reichsleiter?

Pitino

Mark Costa
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 05 Oct 2009 20:55

Pitino:

Backe's failure to receive promotion to Reichsleiter can be traced directly back to Martin Bormann. As early as 1938, Bormann, with the approval of his superior Hess, was trying to consolidate as much power directly into the office of the Deputy Fuhrer. Although Hess was nominally the chief over the Reichsleiters, they many times, went over his head directly to Hitler with their problems. At this point they were still able to do this. Bormann set out to merge as many Reichsleitung offices as he could into the Office of the Deputy Fuhrer, who's Chief of Staff (Stableiter) was Bormann himself. After Hess left for England, Bormann then did the same by merging offices into the Party Chancellery( PK) with him as its head.

In 1938 Grimm was considered to have a redundant office as Reichsleiter of the Second Chamber of the Supreme Party Court. Hence he was removed from the court and then spent two years looking for something to do. When he did not find a position he entered the army and retired.

Von Schirach was sent to Vienna in 1940-- kept his uniform but received the worthless title of Reichsleiter of Youth Education.
Hans Frank lost his Reichsleiter title and uniform and his office was merged with PK.
Franz Von Epp's Colonial Office was closed in 1943, the PK taking on the little left of those duties.

Bormann's goal was to eliminate as many Reichsleiters as possible without replacing any in title. The reichsleitung offices were simply merged into the PK to be headed or overseen by his deputies, Friedrichs, Klopfer etc.
When Schirach was made gauleiter Axmann did NOT inherit the title of Reichsleiter. And neither did Kraus and Schepmann when they replaced their predecessors in the NSKK and SA respectively (Huhnlein and Lutze).

Bormann was not about to make Backe a Reichsleiter. He had eliminated Darre from the list with intentions of merging the office into the PK. Backe was a Himmler man and making Backe a Reichsleiter would just have given Himmler another ally on the Reichsleitung.

Mark Costa

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 05 Oct 2009 22:33

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

Backe's failure to receive promotion to Reichsleiter can be traced directly back to Martin Bormann. As early as 1938, Bormann, with the approval of his superior Hess, was trying to consolidate as much power directly into the office of the Deputy Fuhrer. Although Hess was nominally the chief over the Reichsleiters, they many times, went over his head directly to Hitler with their problems. At this point they were still able to do this. Bormann set out to merge as many Reichsleitung offices as he could into the Office of the Deputy Fuhrer, who's Chief of Staff (Stableiter) was Bormann himself. After Hess left for England, Bormann then did the same by merging offices into the Party Chancellery( PK) with him as its head.

In 1938 Grimm was considered to have a redundant office as Reichsleiter of the Second Chamber of the Supreme Party Court. Hence he was removed from the court and then spent two years looking for something to do. When he did not find a position he entered the army and retired.

Von Schirach was sent to Vienna in 1940-- kept his uniform but received the worthless title of Reichsleiter of Youth Education.
Hans Frank lost his Reichsleiter title and uniform and his office was merged with PK.
Franz Von Epp's Colonial Office was closed in 1943, the PK taking on the little left of those duties.

Bormann's goal was to eliminate as many Reichsleiters as possible without replacing any in title. The reichsleitung offices were simply merged into the PK to be headed or overseen by his deputies, Friedrichs, Klopfer etc.
When Schirach was made gauleiter Axmann did NOT inherit the title of Reichsleiter. And neither did Kraus and Schepmann when they replaced their predecessors in the NSKK and SA respectively (Huhnlein and Lutze).

Bormann was not about to make Backe a Reichsleiter. He had eliminated Darre from the list with intentions of merging the office into the PK. Backe was a Himmler man and making Backe a Reichsleiter would just have given Himmler another ally on the Reichsleitung.

Mark Costa
Mark,
-Once again you have totally answered my question and then some!!!! Thanks!!!

Pitino

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 06 Oct 2009 00:19

-Can someone explain to me the difference between the Hauptamt (Main Office) and Amt (office)? For instance, why is the Rassepolitisches Amt der NSDAP not named Die Hauptamt fur Rassepolitisches and why is the Amt fur Sippenforschung considered a main office and not just an Amt? Some help in understanding this would really be beneficial to me!!!

Pitino

Phil Nix
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Phil Nix » 06 Oct 2009 10:31

I suppose a Hauptamt has amter under it and an Amt does not
Phil Nix

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 06 Oct 2009 16:25

Phil Nix wrote:I suppose a Hauptamt has amter under it and an Amt does not
Phil Nix
Phil,
- It is just hard for me to understand why some offices where Hauptamts while others were just Amts. Maybe I am just being too picky, but I would like to undestand the difference between the two!!!

Pitino

Phil Nix
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Phil Nix » 06 Oct 2009 17:19

Maybe size and importance
pHIL nIX

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 06 Oct 2009 17:56

Phil Nix wrote:Maybe size and importance
pHIL nIX
Phil,
-You are more than likely right!!!

Pitino

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 15 Oct 2009 18:33

-I need some help!! I recently saw a book that listed Gerhard Wagner as Head of the Amt fur Sippenforschung. Is this correct? I have Dr. Kurt Mayer as Amtsleiter des Amt fur Sippenforschung der NSDAP from (April 1,1935-May 1945). Is it possible that Wagner held the Post before Mayer? When was this Amt established? I am pretty sure that Achim Gercke Headed the Reichsstelle fur Sippenforschung before Mayer, but where does Wagner come into play? If anyone could clear this up for me I would really be appreciative!!!!

Pitino

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 16 Oct 2009 19:54

-I have found another party member with the rank of Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP!!! Otto-Georg Thierack was appointed Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP on (August 20,1942).

Pitino

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VJK
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by VJK » 16 Oct 2009 23:02

Hi Pitino,

According to this site: http://books.google.de/books?id=ZNVO4uO ... q=&f=false the Amt für Sippenforschung was established on 15 October 1934. It was renamed the Reichsamt für Sippenforschung on 5 March 1935. I can find no trace of Wagner heading it.

Best regards,

VJK

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 17 Oct 2009 05:39

VJK wrote:Hi Pitino,

According to this site: http://books.google.de/books?id=ZNVO4uO ... q=&f=false the Amt für Sippenforschung was established on 15 October 1934. It was renamed the Reichsamt für Sippenforschung on 5 March 1935. I can find no trace of Wagner heading it.

Best regards,

VJK
VJK,
-Thanks for your info!!! After looking at your site I found the October 15,1934 date, but I was unable to locate the March 5,1935 date. I have Dr. Kurt Mayer as Leiter des Amtes fur Sippenforschung der NSDAP from (April 1,1935-May 1945) and if the Amt was established on October 15,1934 then someone must have been Heading the Amt before Mayer. The book, "Racial Hygiene, Medicine Under the Nazis" states that Dr. Gerhard Wagner was Head of the Amt fur Sippenforschung, but it does not give any dates. Also, there was a Reichsstelle fur Sippenforschung Headed by Achim Gercke until March 18,1935. Mayer replaced Gercke as Leiter in March 1935, but that Department was renamed Reichssippenamt on November 12,1940 and Mayer served as Direktor of that Amt too. This is all very confusing and if someone can help out I would really appreciate it.

Pitino

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 18 Oct 2009 16:14

-Here is an updated list of NSDAP-Ranks, but I need appointment dates. If anyone can add to the list or provide appointment dates please do so!!!!

-(Pre-1939)

-Reich Hauptdienstleiter- (Reich Senior Service Leader)
-Dr. Gerhard Wagner- (Appointed 1936)
-Hans Saupert-
-Fritz Reinhardt- (Appointed summer-1934)
-Rudolf Schmeer- (Appointed 1935)
-Dr. Leonardo Conti- (Appointed April 22,1939)

-(mid 1939-1945)

-Hauptbefehlsleiter- (Senior Command Leader)
-Hans Saupert- (Appointed April 20,1940)
-Friedrich Schmidt-
-Fritz Reinhardt-
-Claus Selzner- (Appointed 1941)

-Oberbefehlsleiter- (Upper Service Leader)
-Helmuth Friedrichs- (Appointed 1943)
-Rudolf Schmeer-
-Otto-Georg Thierack- (Appointed August 20,1942)
-Dr. Leonardo Conti
-Erich Hilgenfeldt
-Ernst Leyser- (Appointed 1943)
-Otto Marrenbach
-Dr. Fritz Todt
-Albert Speer- (Appointed 1942)
-Dr. Paul Ruoff-
-Dr. Anton Lingg-
-Hugo Fischer-
-Heinrich Simon-
-Herbert Backe- (Appointed May 23,1942)
-Fritz Mehnert-
-Gotthard Urban-
-Walther Sommer-
-Georg Leibbrandt

-Befehlsleiter- (Command Leader)
-Richard Schaller-
-Georg Joel-
-Arthur Gorlitzer-
-Albert Miller- (Appointed November 9,1943)
-Ferdinand Grossherr-
-Karl Scharizer-
-Kurt Schmalz-
-Wilhelm Sieh-
-Peter Stangier-
-Karl Linder-
-Herbert Parson-
-Fritz Reckmann-
-Hermann Rohn-

-Hauptdienstleiter- (Senior Service Leader)
-Karl Gerland-
-Gerd von Koerber-
-Wilhelm Kuhnreich-
-Anton Wintersteiger-
-Heinrich Vetter-
-Rudolf Trautmann-
-Max Solbrig-
-Georg Tesche-
-Christian Opdenhoff-
-Karl Overhues-
-Heinrich Peper-
-Walter Gross-
-Paul Giesler- (August 1940-November 1941)
-Otto Gohdes-

-Oberdienstleiter- (Upper Service Leader)
-Hermann Neef-
-Gerhard Klopfer-
-Friedrich Thimel-

Pitino
Last edited by Pitino on 25 Oct 2009 03:55, edited 4 times in total.

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VJK
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by VJK » 19 Oct 2009 08:30

Hi Pitino,

Conti was appointed Hauptdienstleiter on 22 April 1939. Source: http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 26&t=29502

Best regards,

VJK

Pitino
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Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 19 Oct 2009 15:51

VJK wrote:Hi Pitino,

Conti was appointed Hauptdienstleiter on 22 April 1939. Source: http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 26&t=29502

Best regards,

VJK
VJK,
-Thanks for the date!!! I thought that was the date, but I did not want to list it until it was confirmed. I will make the change to my above list now. Thanks again!!!

Pitino

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