Highest NSDAP Rank Holders: Dienstleiter-Hauptbefehlsleiter

Discussions on all aspects of the NSDAP, the other party organizations and the government. Hosted by Michael Miller & Igor Karpov.
Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 29 Oct 2009 19:37

-I finally found the date that Hans Saupert was promoted to Reich Hauptdienstleiter and it was September 1,1934!!! I have found some more ranks to add to my list . They are as follows:

-Hans Saupert-(September 1,1934)- Appointed Reich Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP

-Richard Büchner-(January 13,1941)- Appointed Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP

-Robert Bauer-(1942)- Appointed Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP

Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2352
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 29 Oct 2009 20:18

Pitino:

Again you hit the nail on the head about the NSFK-Korpsführer. The 6 independent party formations all had a Reichsleiter with the exception of the NSFK. Although considered an independent party organization, it was "attached" to the Air Ministry under Göring. By creating a Reichsleiter position for the NSFK, this would have meant that the Korpsführer would have been independent of Göring. Not going to happen. Hence the NSFK never had a Reichsleiter as its leader.

It is interesting to note that the party did not know what to do with the NSFK-Korpsführer in the hierarcy of the NSDAP. They always listed the NSFK Korpsfuhrer under the Reichsleiters but above the Reich Level Hauptdienstleiters and later above the Hauptbefehlsleiters. It was only near the end of the war that the NSFK-Korpsführer Keller was invited to the Reichsleiter/Gauleiter meetings at the FHQ. Previously Christiansen was excluded from such wartime meetings.

It really did not matter much anyway because as we have discussed earlier in this thread, Bormann was slowly doing away with the Reichsleiter title. Although Axmann and Kraus were sometimes referred to as "Reichsleiters", they were never officially given the titles -- as far as can be ascertained. It is possible that their promotions were never recorded but the NSDAP Jahrbuch's definately do not show them as Reichsleiters only as Reichsjugendfuhrer or Korpsführer. I have never seen a reference to Schepmann as a Reichsleiter. Other Official Party documents have referred to Axmann and Kraus as Reichsleiters but never Schepmann.

What is really interesting is the progression of the Reichsleiter insignias for the Party Formation Reichsleiters. This may give us a clue as to their (Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann) status. Before Huhnlein's 1938 promotion to Reichsleiter he wore collar tabs that were similiar to Himmler's and Lutze's but with only HALF wreaths around the oakleaves in the center. After his promotion, Huhnlein then wore tabs EXACTLY like Himmler's and Lutze's.

When Axmann and Kraus became the Reichsjugendführer and Korpsführer respectively, they immediately wore identical tabs to those of the previous Reichsleiters. BUT when Schepmann was made Stabschef in August 1943, he initially wore tabs resembling those worn by a PRE-Reichsleiter Hühnlein with HALF wreaths. Then in November 1943, Schepmann then started wearing tabs identical to all other formation Reichsleiters. Did the tabs signify Reichsleiter titles??? Something to think about. According to the files --- Schepmann was named Stabschef on November 9, 1943. BUT he was already being addressed as Stabchef as early as August 4, 1943 three months earlier !!! Did the date of November 9 represent his promotion to Reichsleiter? Hence the change of collar tabs ??? I have rambled too long about this. Sorry to diverse.

Mark

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 29 Oct 2009 20:48

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

Again you hit the nail on the head about the NSFK-Korpsführer. The 6 independent party formations all had a Reichsleiter with the exception of the NSFK. Although considered an independent party organization, it was "attached" to the Air Ministry under Göring. By creating a Reichsleiter position for the NSFK, this would have meant that the Korpsfuhrer would have been independent of Göring. Not going to happen. Hence the NSFK never had a Reichsleiter as its leader.

It is interesting to note that the party did not know what to do with the NSFK Korpsfuhrer in the hierarcy of the NSDAP. They always listed the NSFK Korpsfuhrer under the Reichsleiters but above the Reich Level Hauptdienstleiters and later above the Hauptbefehlsleiters. It was only near the end of the war that the NSFK-Korpsführer Keller was invited to the Reichsleiter/Gauleiter meetings at the FHQ. Previously Christiansen was excluded from such wartime meetings.

It really did not matter much anyway because as we have discussed earlier in this thread, Bormann was slowly doing away with the Reichsleiter title. Although Axmann and Kraus were sometimes referred to as "Reichsleiters", they were never officially given the titles -- as far as can be ascertained. It is possible that their promotions were never recorded but the NSDAP Jahrbuch's definately do not show them as Reichsleiters only as Reichsjugendfuhrer or Korpsführer. I have never seen a reference to Schepmann as a Reichsleiter. Other Official Party documents have referred to Axmann and Kraus as Reichsleiters but never Schepmann.

What is really interesting is the progression of the Reichsleiter insignias for the Party Formation Reichsleiters. This may give us a clue as to their (Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann) status. Before Huhnlein's 1938 promotion to Reichsleiter he wore collar tabs that were similiar to Himmler's and Lutze's but with only HALF wreaths around the oakleaves in the center. After his promotion, Hühnlein then wore tabs EXACTLY like Himmler's and Lutze's.

When Axmann and Kraus became the Reichsjugendfuhrer and Korpsfuhrer respectively, they immediately wore identical tabs to those of the previous Reichsleiters. BUT when Schepmann was made Stabschef in August 1943, he initially wore tabs resembling those worn by a PRE-Reichsleiter Hühnlein with HALF wreaths. Then in November 1943, Schepmann then started wearing tabs identical to all other formation Reichsleiters. Did the tabs signify Reichsleiter titles??? Something to think about. According to the files --- Schepmann was named Stabschef on November 9, 1943. BUT he was already being addressed as Stabchef as early as August 4, 1943 three months earlier !!! Did the date of November 9 represent his promotion to Reichsleiter? Hence the change of collar tabs ??? I have rambled too long about this. Sorry to diverse.

Mark

Mark,
-I am the one Forum Member you could never ramble too long with!!!! You bring up some very astute points. One would think that if Axmann and Kraus wore identical Reichsleiter tabs to their predecessors (Schirach and Huhnlein) then they too would hold the title of Reichsleiter. You would think that as title hungry as most of the NSDAP-Members seemed to have been, they (Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann) would have pushed for that prized title. Doesn't Reichsleiter Wilhelm Schepmann sound better than SA-Stabschef Schepmann? Maybe if the war would have lasted longer we could have found evidence that these men did get the Reichsleiter title. I know that in the case of Karl Hanke he most undoubtedly would have been given that title as the Reichsfuhrer-SS if the war would have lasted longer. He may have been given that title anyway, but I have never seen evidence of his promotion. Thanks for the collaboration!!!!

Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2352
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 29 Oct 2009 21:37

Pitino:

If you look at the tabs worn by the Stabchefs, Reichsführer SS, Reichsjugendführer, Korpsführer etc then you will see the similiarties I speak of. There is no doubt in my mind that these men (Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann) were considered equals to the Reichsleiters with or without the title. They sat with them at meetings. Were invited to the Reichsleiter conferences etc. They may not have had the official NSDAP title Reichsleiter but certainly were their equals.

If I was writing a book, I would certainly include the Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann and Hanke bios in the Reichsleiter chapter. I would include the NSFK Korpsführers Christiansen and Keller as "sort of" Reichsleiters along with Frau Scholtz-Klink. These people are the only ones I truly consider as "Reichsleiters". All others are not. Why ? Because all other "Reich Leaders" actually answered to a higher authority than Hitler! Technically all Reichsleiters answered only to Hitler and were appointed by him -- Martin Bormann not withstanding. For example Tschammer as "Reichsportführer " answered to the Lutze. Rudiger as Reichsferentin BDM answered to Axmann etc etc etc.

Frau Scholtz-Klink is interesting as the Women's organization technically was not an independent organization like the SS and SA. Otherwise she may have received the title. But in a sense she reported directly to Hitler.

In the same vein I would NOT include Heiden, Berchthold as Reichsleiters as their tenure as Reichsführer SS were before the title Reichsleiter was made official -- June 2, 1933. Also during their time, the Reichsführer SS was subordinate to the Stabchef SA. Even Himmler was subordinate to Röhm from 1933-34 but still was technically equal as of June 2, 1933.

Mark

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 29 Oct 2009 22:31

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

If you look at the tabs worn by the Stabchefs, Reichsfuhrer SS, Reichsjugendführer, Korpsführers etc then you will see the similiarties I speak of. There is no doubt in my mind that these men (Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann) were considered equals to the Reichsleiters with or without the title. They sat with them at meetings. Were invited to the Reichsleiter conferences etc. They may not have had the official NSDAP title Reichsleiter but certainly were their equals.

If I was writing a book, I would certainly include the Axmann, Kraus, Schepmann and Hanke bios in the Reichsleiter chapter. I would include the NSFK Korpsführers Christiansen and Keller as "sort of" Reichsleiters along with Frau Scholtz-Klink. These people are the only ones I truly consider as "Reichsleiters". All others are not. Why ? Because all other "Reich Leaders" actually answered to a higher authority than Hitler! Technically all Reichsleiters answered only to Hitler and were appointed by him -- Martin Bormann not withstanding. For example Tschammer as "Reichsportführer " answered to the Lutze. Rudiger as Reichsferentin BDM answered to Axmann etc etc etc.

Frau Scholtz-Klink is interesting as the Women's organization technically was not an independent organization like the SS and SA. Otherwise she may have received the title. But in a sense she reported directly to Hitler.

In the same vein I would NOT include Heiden, Berchthold as Reichsleiters as their tenure as Reichsführer SS were before the title Reichsleiter was made official -- June 2, 1933. Also during their time, the Reichsführer SS was subordinate to the Stabschef SA. Even Himmler was subordinate to Röhm from 1933-34 but still was technically equal as of June 2, 1933.

Mark
Mark,
-Very interesting material!!! One thing though, wasn't Scholtz-Klink subordinate to Erich Hilgenfeldt? I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure Hilgenfeldt was her superior. Maybe she operated as his Deputy. Possibly you could clear that up for me. Thanks again for your expertise on the Reichsleiter der NSDAP subject.

Your friend,
Pitino

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 29 Oct 2009 22:36

-I have found the date to Otto Gohdes appointment to Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP!!!

-Otto Gohdes-(1943)- Appointed to Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP

Pitino

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 30 Oct 2009 04:44

-I found the date that Otto Marrenbach was promoted to Hauptdienstleiter, but his promotion date to Oberbefehlsleiter still evades me!!! Also, here is a couple more NSDAP ranks, but Damson's date is missing.

-Otto Marrenbach-(Late 1939)- Appointed Befehlsleiter der NSDAP- (By December 1941-Promoted to Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP)

-Willi Damson-(?-?)- Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP

-Friedrich Karl Janowsky-(1940)- Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP

Pitino
Last edited by Pitino on 30 Oct 2009 19:54, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Nix
In memoriam
Posts: 9498
Joined: 15 Oct 2002 10:52
Location: Birmingham England

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Phil Nix » 30 Oct 2009 12:07

Marrenbach promoted Oberbefehlsleiter 3.12.1942
Phil Nix

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 30 Oct 2009 13:17

Phil Nix wrote:Marrenbach promoted Oberbefehlsleiter 3.12.1942
Phil Nix
Phil,
-Much appreciation on the Marrenbach Oberbefehlsleiter promotion date!!! That date evaded me for some time. Thanks!! (Correction- Marrenbach was already an Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP by December 1941)

Pitino
Last edited by Pitino on 30 Oct 2009 19:57, edited 1 time in total.

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 30 Oct 2009 13:29

-Here is a few more Oberdienstleiters, but I need help with some of their promotion dates:

-Walter Stang- (April 20,1941)- Promoted to Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP

-Matthes Ziegler-(1941)- Promoted to Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP

-Viktor Brack-(Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP)

-Fritz Marrenbach- (Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP)

-Albert Bormann- (Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP)

-Hubert Berkenkamp- (Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP)

-Herbert Jaensch- (Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP)


Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2352
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 30 Oct 2009 15:35

Pitino:

Marrenbach actually had a higher ranking above Hauptbefehsleiter ! Now I do not want to throw anyone a curve but there were ranks created in the 1939 scheme, that were never used officially, but were actually WORN !!!! Marrenbach being one of those persons. The collar tabs still exist, but I have been unable to find any references to them and to their titles. But in photos they were shown to be ABOVE Hauptbefehlsleiter. But for some reason after Ley's state visit to Italy in May 1939 they were never worn again by Marrenbach.

Mark

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 30 Oct 2009 16:30

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

Marrenbach actually had a higher ranking above Hauptbefehsleiter ! Now I do not want to throw anyone a curve but there were ranks created in the 1939 scheme, that were never used officially, but were actually WORN !!!! Marrenbach being one of those persons. The collar tabs still exist, but I have been unable to find any references to them and to their titles. But in photos they were shown to be ABOVE Hauptbefehlsleiter. But for some reason after Ley's state visit to Italy in May 1939 they were never worn again by Marrenbach.

Mark
Mark,
-This is something that I was totally unaware of!!! I wonder what the rank was called? Also, you said that Marrenbach was one of the person's to hold the rank, but who were the others? If it was above the rank of Hauptbefehlsleiter then was it on par with the Gauleiters and Reichsleiters? Marrenbach was only promoted to Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP on May 11,1942 so how was he wearing the tabs of a rank 3 levels higher way back in 1939? It is very odd yet it does peek my interest!!! Thanks for the info!!!

Pitino

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2352
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Mark Costa » 30 Oct 2009 18:10

Pitino:

Your date on Marrenbach is not correct. He was already an Befehlsleiter in late 1939 as shown by my first photo --Marrenbach01.

And he was already an Oberbefehlsleiter in December of 1941 as shown in photo marrenbach02.

Are you possibly looking at his brother's records?

Mark
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Phil Nix
In memoriam
Posts: 9498
Joined: 15 Oct 2002 10:52
Location: Birmingham England

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Phil Nix » 30 Oct 2009 18:26

Pitino wrote:
Phil Nix wrote:Marrenbach promoted Oberbefehlsleiter 3.12.1942
Phil Nix
Phil,
-Much appreciation on the Marrenbach Oberbefehlsleiter promotion date!!! That date evaded me for some time. Thanks!!

Pitino
My date is for SS Bf Otto Marrenbach
Phil Nix

Pitino
Member
Posts: 1859
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 08:58
Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky

Re: Reich Hauptdienstleiter

Post by Pitino » 30 Oct 2009 19:51

Mark Costa wrote:Pitino:

Your date on Marrenbach is not correct. He was already an Befehlsleiter in late 1939 as shown by my first photo --Marrenbach01.

And he was already an Oberbefehlsleiter in December of 1941 as shown in photo marrenbach02.

Are you possibly looking at his brother's records?

Mark
Mark,
-So my dates for Marrenbach are wrong. I got the Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP date of December 3,1942 for the Geschaftsfuhrer der DAF Otto Marrenbach from Forum Member Phil Nix, but he has now stated that he was looking at the SS-General Otto Marrenbach. I don't think that Otto Marrenbach was an Oberbefehlsleiter though. The Hauptdienstleiter der NSDAP date of May 11,1942 for the Geschaftsfuhrer der DAF Otto Marrenbach I got from Forum Member Andie Schulz's Marrenbach bio. If I am not mistaken Fritz Marrenbach only held the rank of Oberdienstleiter der NSDAP. All these Marrenbach's is enough to confuse anyone!!!! You say that Marrenbach was promoted to Befehlsleiter in late 1939 and was an Oberbefehlsleiter by December 1941. I will gladly make corrections!!! You don't have his specific promotion dates do you? Also, when you spoke earlier of Marrenbach wearing tabs above Hauptbefehlsleiter it jogged my memory a bit. It seems as if I remember seeing Erich Koch wearing special Gauleiter tabs around that same period of time. Anyway, thanks for the info!!!

Pitino
Last edited by Pitino on 31 Oct 2009 02:03, edited 1 time in total.

Return to “NSDAP, other party organizations & Government”