Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

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Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 31 Jan 2012 01:41

-Need some help?? I found a source that lists Emil Koch-Schweisfurth as a post-1939 Reichshauptamtsleiter. Is this correct? It lists him as RHAL und Vorsitzender des I. Kammer des OPG from (1943). Can anyone tell me if his RHAL der NSDAP rank is true and if it is true wouldn't he have a different rank in (1943) besides the old RHAL der NSDAP. Wouldn't the HDL der NSDAP rank be more sufficient?

Pitino

Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 31 Jan 2012 13:40

-Earlier in this thread I listed Dr. Anton Lingg as most certainly holding the rank of Pre-1939 Reichshauptamtsleiter. Well, I can positively confirm this! In (1939), Lingg was listed in a source as Hauptamtsleiter in der Reichsleitung der NSDAP im Stabe des Reichsschatzmeisters.

Pitino

Mark Costa
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Mark Costa » 31 Jan 2012 13:50

Pitino:

Emil was not a Chamber President of the Supreme Party Court but was a senior judge in the Third Chamber. After the Third Chamber was abolished he moved over to the First Chamber. He may have served as an interim President of the First Chamber after the dismissal of Ludwig Schneider, and before Friedrich Reckmann was appointed. The OPG seemed to use their pre-1939 titles throughout the history of the NSDAP. Although he was never a ReichsHauptamtleiter, he may have been assumed to be one, as the collar tabs of a Senior Judge on the OPG were similiar to a RHA with the exception of them being in royal blue. Many OPG judges continued to use their pre-1939 insignias after 1939. The parteigericht of all levels of course, had very different titles under the old 1933-1939 structure. The source may not have know their post 1939 ranks. And I have never seen any of the OPG judges referred to by their post 1939 ranks. They always seem to be referred to by their pre-1939 title of Vorsitzender, Richter der OPG, Gaurichter etc etc.

Also remember that the OPG Judges were equivalent to ReichHauptAmtleiters in rank. After 1939 this title became Oberstes Leiter eines Hauptamtes. Which one would you say if you were referring to it ? Hauptamtleiter or this mouthful of words??

Mark Costa

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Igor Karpov
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Igor Karpov » 31 Jan 2012 14:30

According to decree by Dr. Robert Ley from August 1, 1939 the positions of judges on Gau and Kreis level were thus established:

Kammervorsitzende und Beisitzer beim Kreisgericht = Kreishauptstellenleiter

Der Leiter des Kreisgerichts = Kreishauptamtsleiter

Kammervorsitzende und Beisitzer beim Gaugericht = Gauhauptstellenleiter (Ranks: from Hauptgemeinschaftsleiter to Hauptabschnittsleiter)

Der Leiter des Gaugerichts = Gauhauptamtsleiter

Regards,
Igor

Mark Costa
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Mark Costa » 31 Jan 2012 14:54

Igor:

This decree by Ley is a perfect example of the confusion or ranks/titles etc. Note how even Ley still refers to the functions by their pre-1939 titles. Instead of using the NEW "Leiter Eines HauptAmts" he uses gau Hauptamtleiter, the 1939-1939 title. Most of the leaders were confused by the new titles and ranks and that is why men like Goebbels Speer and others still used the old titles. Speer could not even say his new rank of Oberbefehlsleiter when questioned after the war. And he still used his old collar tabs of a Reichshauptamtleiter up to 1942 !! The party court continued to use the pre-1939 titles and insignias even though the Party Court system of ranks, insignias and titles were officially abolished with the new structure in 1939.

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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Igor Karpov » 15 Feb 2012 12:50

Pitino wrote:-Found another new Pre-War Hauptamtsleiter!!!!!

-Helmut Sündermann- (1938) Hauptamtsleiter
He was appointed December 9, 1938.

Regards,
Igor

Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 15 Feb 2012 13:46

Igor Karpov wrote:
Pitino wrote:-Found another new Pre-War Hauptamtsleiter!!!!!

-Helmut Sündermann- (1938) Hauptamtsleiter
He was appointed December 9, 1938.

Regards,
Igor

Igor,
-Good work!!! I know that he was positively still a Reichsamtsleiter der NSDAP as late as (April 1938) and I had been searching for his promotion date to no avail. Where did you happen to find this date?

Pitino

Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 16 Feb 2012 15:33

Igor Karpov wrote:
Pitino wrote:-Found another new Pre-War Hauptamtsleiter!!!!!

-Helmut Sündermann- (1938) Hauptamtsleiter
He was appointed December 9, 1938.

Regards,
Igor
Igor,
-After looking over my notes I will bet that Sündermann's RHAL der NSDAP appt. coincides with his appt. to stellvertreter Reichspressechef der NSDAP. I have had a positive month (December) and year (1938) for the deputy appt., but I have never been able to find the positive day for that appt. So, if your source is reputable then his RHAL appt. date of (December 9, 1938) is most likely the other appt. date I have been looking for as well. What is your source? I would like to be able to definitively change my records here at home, but with out a source I do not like to do that! Thanks for the good work!

Pitino

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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Igor Karpov » 20 Feb 2012 11:08

Previously I said that Paul Brinckmann held the rank of Oberbereichsleiter der NSDAP - a mistake, because already in 1935 he was Reichshauptamtsleiter der NSDAP.

Regards,
Igor

Mark Costa
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Mark Costa » 20 Feb 2012 13:45

Igor:

It might not be a mistake on Brinckmann as the two ranks have absolutely nothing to do with eachother. The pre-1939 Reichshauptamtleiter rank in 1935, was totally different than a 1939 rank of Oberbereichsleiter. It is very possible that he was a Oberbereichsleiter in the new structure of 1939.

But we are still waiting for sources from you on several issues such as Todt's promotion to ReichsHauptdienstleiter and Sundermann's.

Mark Costa

Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 20 Feb 2012 15:06

Igor Karpov wrote:Add Heinrich Haake, Paul Wachlin, Wilhelm Röder and Herbert Hänssgen.

Regards,
Igor
Igor,
-Are you sure about Paul Wachlin being a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP? I know for a fact that on (July 27, 1937) he is referred to as RAL Wachlin in a transmission from the Stab des StdF to the Reichsschatzmeister. So, if he was promoted to a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP it had to be in between (July 27, 1937-Summer 1939). Now, if he was promoted later on during the war he would not make this list.

-("4: Regesten Band 2, Volume 2", p. 317, note 22441)

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Igor Karpov
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Igor Karpov » 20 Feb 2012 15:43

Pitino wrote:Igor,
-Are you sure about Paul Wachlin being a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP? I know for a fact that on (July 27, 1937) he is referred to as RAL Wachlin in a transmission from the Stab des StdF to the Reichsschatzmeister. So, if he was promoted to a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP it had to be in between (July 27, 1937-Summer 1939). Now, if he was promoted later on during the war he would not make this list.
Yes, I'm sure.

Regards,
Igor

Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 20 Feb 2012 16:03

Igor Karpov wrote:
Pitino wrote:Igor,
-Are you sure about Paul Wachlin being a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP? I know for a fact that on (July 27, 1937) he is referred to as RAL Wachlin in a transmission from the Stab des StdF to the Reichsschatzmeister. So, if he was promoted to a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP it had to be in between (July 27, 1937-Summer 1939). Now, if he was promoted later on during the war he would not make this list.
Yes, I'm sure.

Regards,
Igor
Igor,
-When was his appt. date then?

Pitino

Mark Costa
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Mark Costa » 20 Feb 2012 17:25

Igor Karpov wrote:
Pitino wrote:Igor,
-Are you sure about Paul Wachlin being a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP? I know for a fact that on (July 27, 1937) he is referred to as RAL Wachlin in a transmission from the Stab des StdF to the Reichsschatzmeister. So, if he was promoted to a Pre-1939 RHAL der NSDAP it had to be in between (July 27, 1937-Summer 1939). Now, if he was promoted later on during the war he would not make this list.
Yes, I'm sure.

Regards,
Igor
Igor:

"Yes I'm Sure" is NOT a SOURCE. We have asked for sources many times, and you seem to ignore our pleas for your sources. What is the problem??

Mark Costa

Pitino
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Re: Pre- War Reichshauptamtsleiters

Post by Pitino » 06 May 2012 13:54

-Here is a new Pre-War RHAL der NSDAP!

-Dr. med. Gustav Adolf Scheel- (April 24, 1937)- appt. RHAL der NSDAP

-(Bayerische Landesbibliothek Online)

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