Ministers' paramilitary affiliation

[Cartaphilus]

Hello everybody.

I have a very simple question: What paramilitary organizations belonged German ministers?. For example:

- Darré: SS
- Ribbentrop: SS
- Ohnesorge: NSKK and NSFK
- Kerrl: SA
- Seldte: SA
- Backe: SS
- Thierack: SA

What about Fritz Todt? SA or NSKK?

And Funk, Dorpmüller, Rust and the others? Belonged only to the corp of political leaders of the NSDAP?


Thank you so much.

[Igor Karpov]

- Rust: SA
- Fritz Todt: SA
- Dorpmüller: ---
- Funk: ---

Regards,
Igor

[Mark Costa]

Other Ministers and their affiliations:

Neurath -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Frank -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Seyss-Inquart -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Terboven -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Göring -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Hess -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Bormann -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Lammers -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Rosenberg -- SA Obergrüppenführer

Meissner, Funk, Dörpmüller, Frick, Gürtner, Krosigk, Schlegelberger (Acting), Speer and Göbbels were not associated with any party paramilitary afiliation, although Speer thought he was an member of the Manheim SS. It turned out he was not listed as an SS member there and had never joined. Himmler wished to make him an honorary SS Oberst-grüppenführer but he declined the honor.

Himmler and Hierl were also Ministers and of course associated with the SS and RAD respectively. Hierl had also been an SA Gruppenfuhrer.

Those men who became Ministers in Hitler's Last Will and Testament:

Giesler -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Hanke -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Scheel -- SS Obergrüppenführer, SA Sturmfuhrer
Naumann -- SS Brigadeführer, SA Oberfuhrer
Saur -- None
Ley -- SA Obergrüppenführer, RAD Obergeneralarbietsführer, NSFK Obergrüppenführer

Mark Costa

[Cartaphilus]

Dear Mark, I know that some ministers had a rank in the NSDAP (Reichsleiter, Gauleiter...), but, what was the NSDAP rank of Speer and Funk? And were Dorpmüller and Schlegelberger members of the NSDAP?


Thanks.

[Pitino]

Other Ministers and their affiliations:

Neurath -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Frank -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Seyss-Inquart -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Terboven -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Göring -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Hess -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Bormann -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Lammers -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Rosenberg -- SA Obergrüppenführer

Meissner, Funk, Dörpmüller, Frick, Gürtner, Krosigk, Schlegelberger (Acting), Speer and Göbbels were not associated with any party paramilitary afiliation, although Speer thought he was an member of the Manheim SS. It turned out he was not listed as an SS member there and had never joined. Himmler wished to make him an honorary SS Oberst-grüppenführer but he declined the honor.

Himmler and Hierl were also Ministers and of course associated with the SS and RAD respectively. Hierl had also been an SA Gruppenfuhrer.

Those men who became Ministers in Hitler's Last Will and Testament:

Giesler -- SA Obergrüppenführer
Hanke -- SS Obergrüppenführer
Scheel -- SS Obergrüppenführer, SA Sturmfuhrer
Naumann -- SS Brigadeführer, SA Oberfuhrer
Saur -- None
Ley -- SA Obergrüppenführer, RAD Obergeneralarbietsführer, NSFK Obergrüppenführer

Mark Costa

Mark,
-You left out dear old Ernst Röhm, but I guess everyone knows and that it goes without saying that he was associated with the SA. A lot of people seem to forget that he was appointed minister at the same time that Hess was.

Pitino

[Mark Costa]

Cartaphilus:

Speer held the pre-1939 rank of Reichshauptamtleiter and then the 1939-45 rank of Oberbefehlsleiter. Funk did not hold any NSDAP rank although he liked to wear a plain NSDAP uniform without insignia and a reichsleiter visor cap.

I also forgot Acting Minister of Church Affairs Hermann Muhs who held an SS Oberfuhrer rank until expelled from the SS.

Mark

[Michael Miller]

I have heard conflicting statements regarding Alfred Rosenberg's status as an SA-Obergrüppenführer or as an SA-Führer of any rank but am now convinced he was indeed an honorary SA-Ogruf. I base this on having seen him referred to as such in 1941 and 1943 issues of "Der SA-Führer", which are now available via Google Books (https://www.google.com/books/edition/De ... =en&gbpv=0).
Does anyone have the date he was granted the rank of SA-Obergruppenführer? I think it likely he would have been granted senior SA rank rather early, 1933 perhaps, and if so, he may have first been appointed a Gruppenführer.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed light on this.

Best wishes,
~ Mike

[E-IV]

According to a source (that I can't find any more) Rosenberg was granted the rank of SA-Gruppenführer on 30th of January 1938. Being a honorary leader could it be that he was promoted to SA-Obergruppenführer at a later stage?

[Mark Costa]

Mike:

In my files I have a date of Obergruppenfuhrer as January 30, 1933. Not sure where I got it from but I have had that date for years.

Mark

[Br. James]

In my files I have this notation: "Wilhelm Frick was listed as one of only eight men to receive the high honorary rank of NSKK-Ehrenführer from Korpsführer Adolf Hühnlein, as listed in the "NSKK Korpsbefehl" dated May 7, 1935. Does this indicate that he was 'a member of the NSKK?'

Br. James

[Mark Costa]

In my files I have this notation: "Wilhelm Frick was listed as one of only eight men to receive the high honorary rank of NSKK-Ehrenführer from Korpsführer Adolf Hühnlein, as listed in the "NSKK Korpsbefehl" dated May 7, 1935. Does this indicate that he was 'a member of the NSKK?'

Br. James

Br James:

No he would not have been listed as an "active member". The rank was strictly honorary. Hence in the NSDAP Jahrbuch's and other officila publications his name would not have been listed as an active rank. This goes for all honorary ranks in the various orgs. HOWEVER, he would have been listed under the rank in the NSKK Dienstelliste.

Mark

[Br. James]

Thanks very much, Mark -- VERY helpful, as always!

Cheers,

Br. James