Beer Hall Putsch

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Helly Angel
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#46

Post by Helly Angel » 11 Aug 2011, 13:37

Beautiful photos Keir!!!! if you visit München again please take photos in the places!

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Keir
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#47

Post by Keir » 11 Aug 2011, 16:06

that's what I mean- it isn't until I get back home that I find out what I should have been looking for. Hopefully Mannheim's taken the appropriate pics...
School starts next week; I'll ask students to take pics for me as they live in the city. They're not the most energetic and helpful, though.


Oberhessin
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#48

Post by Oberhessin » 11 Aug 2011, 19:41

Great photos. First time I see Christian Weber marching.

JoeW
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#49

Post by JoeW » 11 Aug 2011, 23:16

jeffhan373 wrote:..................Mjoelnir's right: in 1934 there was no march per se - Hitler and the Alte Kaempfer placed a wreath at the Mahnmal in a considerably scaled down ceremony....................
A photo review of 9. November 1934 in "Der Deutsche Polizeibeamte" shows HItler marching down Residenzstrasse followed by Hess, then Himmler and Lutze; the Blood Flag was there carried by Grimminger in brownshirt; heavy presence of SS; massive formations on the Odeoplatz including burning pyres;speeches on the steps of the FHH; Blood orders being worn.

Seems the only thing that might not have occured was the march to the FHH, though Hitler and the rest were marching from somewhere.

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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#50

Post by jeffhan373 » 12 Aug 2011, 01:37

In her exhaustive book "Der Kult um die toten Helden", Sabine Behrenbeck comments about the 1933 & 1934 November 9 marches: "in 1933 there was a shortened form of the march culminating with the consecration of the Monument" and "in 1934 there was only a wreath laying at the Feldherrnhalle."

I'm not sure how the march was shortened in 1933; perhaps she meant it was shorter than the finalized route from 1935 on (after the Honor Temples & Königsplatz had been finished).

But the 1934 march is clearly different from all other years. The IB covered it in it's usual massive photographic style. Hitler marches with his followers (described by Joe in his post), he's not with the group of Old Fighters as in other years. In this small group there's no sign of the faces we usually associate with the Führer group, but people like Lutze - not a veteran of November 9 - are. Graf, Sesselmann et al. are pictured in a separate tightly formed block of Old Fighters which was clearly not at the head of the parade. Streicher and the Blood Flag do not lead the column; Hitler marches alone at the very head of the march, followed by Hess, Himmler & Lutze. (From the IB coverage, Streicher was in with a block of Old Fighters and there's no sign of the Blood Flag on the march - perhaps Grimminger was waiting at the Monument for the Marchers.) Right after Hitler and his entourage we see massed SS formations, not the usual groups of Old Fighters. The SS formations are formed much tighter than the usual parade format, and appear to include a good many enlisted troopers - not the "Alte Kaempfer" you usually see at the head of the parade. I didn't see Göring in any photos of this event.

Wear of the Blood Order is very inconsistent. Hitler doesn't have it on, either on Nov. 8 or during the march. Nor does Hess. Only Schaub & Grimminger are seen wearing it in the IB parade coverage.

Was there a March and considerable ceremony in 1934? Clearly. But it was much different than in other years.I don't know where the march began but it's possible that they didn't start at the Buergerbraekeller as usual. I don't know why this was done. The IB captions its parade photos with "Adolf Hitler on his way to the Wreath Laying on November 9"; this would seem to indicate that the IB, at least, felt that the culmination of the 1934 event was the wreath laying...

JoeW
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#51

Post by JoeW » 12 Aug 2011, 04:08

Jeff, I will try and scan some of the magazine photos tomorrow. The wreath laying was certainly not the culmination of the ceremony, as the Odeonplatz was packed as was the FHH. A rostrum was present and there is a shot of who appears to be v. Schirach speaking. So perhaps the IB caption was strictly descriptive of the photo rather than a comment on the extent of the event.

I am confused about Barenbeck's comment about the 1933 march being a shortened form. There was no march "form" to shorten, as this was the 10th anniversary and no one had duplicated it since the original. This was the a grand day in Munich to celebrate the anniversary. A special badge was created- a Festabzeichen- that has been thought for years by "authors" to be a Gau Munich Ehrenzeich d. 9.11.33. And in fact it was only a celebratory badge for the special event. I am positive that the police magazine shows the full march of the Putschists. I will check my copy tomorrow.

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Helly Angel
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#52

Post by Helly Angel » 12 Aug 2011, 04:55

Some interestings film about the Feldherrnhalle!

1936 Ewige Wache - Ein Film über die Feldherrenhalle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed3niYup ... 49A43C4344

Für Uns - Zum Appell (Part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u5uAx_R ... re=related

Für Uns - Zum Appell (Part 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Zq5Ahh ... re=related

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Helly Angel
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#53

Post by Helly Angel » 12 Aug 2011, 04:58

I like somuch this!!!


1938 - Appeal to the Feldherrnhalle in Munchen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvefOZF5 ... playnext=2

JoeW
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#54

Post by JoeW » 12 Aug 2011, 05:57

Great links HH. Amazing to see that the funeral cortege had to carry the sarcophagi from the west end of the Ehrentempeln on the Karlsplatz all the way around to the east side to the entry stairway. What a walk.

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Keir
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#55

Post by Keir » 12 Aug 2011, 07:37

Helly Angel wrote:Some interestings film about the Feldherrnhalle!

1936 Ewige Wache - Ein Film über die Feldherrenhalle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed3niYup ... 49A43C4344

Für Uns - Zum Appell (Part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u5uAx_R ... re=related

Für Uns - Zum Appell (Part 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Zq5Ahh ... re=related
I put footage from 1937-39, and 42-44 on this page: http://www.tracesofevil.com/2008/01/mun ... halle.html as well as 'Für Uns - Zum Appell' and the frankly bizarre 'Ewige Wache' from 1936 (just showing the final procession).

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Erich S
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#56

Post by Erich S » 12 Aug 2011, 14:35

A very nice site Keir that has everything in one place. Best, Erich

JoeW
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#57

Post by JoeW » 12 Aug 2011, 17:47

Jeff, I think Behrenbeck's comments about the 1933 and 1934 festivities are incorrect. From the 1933 issue of the police magazine I mentioned you can see Hitler with his friends at the head of the original participants and following Streicher and the flag during the replication of the original march.

Image

In addition, there are photos of Hitler with his comrades at the Sterneckerbraeu. Notice the photo of Hitler and Schwarz.

Image

This was taken on the balcony of the Braun Haus, so the parade was continued to the Ludwigplatz after the ceremonies at the FHH.

And as for 1934, here is Hitler followed by Hess, then Himmler and Lutze with SS officers behind them.

Image

Other photos in the montage show Hitler in the beer hall with his comrades, some of who are wearing the BO. The ceremonies after the wreath laying included this speech by v. Schirach during the admission of the oldest HJ members into the party ranks.

Image

And too, this 1934 event ended up in the Karlsplatz as can be seen by this parade of DEs past the Braun Haus.

Image

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Keir
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#58

Post by Keir » 12 Aug 2011, 19:00

Just came back from a trip to Munich consisting of 85km of cycling that was to culminate in a photo journal of the putsch procession worthy of the Illustrated Beobachter just for Helly. Forget that- there's no way to connect the Munich of today with the same streets of 3/4 of a century ago. In fact, it's just as well Mannheim didn't go down Weinstrasse as he'd have fallen into a crater.
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Keir
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#59

Post by Keir » 12 Aug 2011, 19:08

More scenes of construction around Marienplatz. I took many more but this should suffice.
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Keir
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Re: Beer Hall Putsch

#60

Post by Keir » 12 Aug 2011, 19:14

I did spend an inordinate amount of time trying to make one then-and-now pic to provide comparison without tourists, although this involved me standing in the middle of the main thoroughfare.
Turning off Rosenheimerstr. towards Ludwigsbruecke:
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